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To: hosepipe; Alamo-Girl
Surely our human fathers are fathers of our bodies.. God is father of the "spirit(s)"..

What a strikingly beautiful essay/post, dear brother in Christ! Thank you ever so much!

46 posted on 05/24/2009 12:10:00 PM PDT by betty boop (Tyranny is always whimsical. — Mark Steyn)
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To: betty boop
Cogito ergo sum. According to Darwinists, the phyiscal world is all that there is. The human brain, we are told by materialists darwinists, developed over eons of time and at some point of developement-consciousness was propagated. Feelings, hope, a point of view, self-awareness, introspection and an awareness of our self. Today, scientists and philosopers are not concluding that the laws of physics and chemistry cannot explain the experience of consciousness in human beings. They are beginning to understand that there is also a nonmaterial reality called the soul, mind, or self that accountants for our sentience. Sir John Eccles, nobel prize winning laureate for his work on the brain, said, "I am constrained to believe that there is what we might call a supernatural origin or my unique self-conscious mind or my unique selfhood or soul." The Bible asserts Dualism, or that the person consists of both body and spirit, and now science follows the lead of Biblical teachings (though darwinists materialists would never abandon their pride and declare an accord).

Consciousness, excepting life itself, is the single most important fact about our existence.

John Searle states, "We don't have an adequate theory of how the brain causes conscious states, and we don't have an adequate theory of how consciousness fits into the universe." Despite this admission the darwinists, materialist, Searle, says, "He still holds an unshakable faith that science will eventually discover a completely naturalistic explanation for consciousness." (Faith,- just like origin of life, just like first life, just like origin of the universe, just like evolution - they hold no facts, simply faith in their theories - - thank goodness they live in the USA and have that constituional protection).

Dr. Moreland seems to answer the question of the difference between machines and living organism. He seems to believe that "conciousness is what you're aware of when you introspect". If there was no conciousness apples, which are red, would still be red.

Dr. Moreland tried to explain to his young son and daughter that the soul and consiousness are invisible and made it difficult to conceptualize. He said, "My soul and my consciousness are invisible, though my body is visible. His daughter told him that if he could see God, it would make it easier for her to believe. Whereupon he said, "The problem is not that you have not seen God. You have never seen your own mother". (And her mother was sitting next to her at that moment). He told his daughter, "What if we could take your Mom apart, cell, by cell, (without hurting her). He said they would never come to a moment where they exclaimed, "Look! Here is MoM". We could not find Mom's thoughts, beliefs, desires, or feelings. And, he said, they would never find Mom, herself - that is because Mom is a person, and persons are invisible souls. It harkens back to the statement by C.S.Lewis when asked if he had a soul. He replied, "No, I do not have a soul. I am a soul. I have a body".

So, to the point of the question, a machine, a computer, has no consciousness. Not sentience. Consciousness is what makes one alive. What causes a computer to perform functions is electric circuitry.

Geoffrey Medell said consciousness is a mystery which seems like a radical novelty in the universe, not prefigured by the aftereffects of the Big Bang. You cannot get something from nothing, yet Dr.Searle, et.al., apply their faith in exactly that direction due to an a priori committment to materialism. The question: "How do you then, get something totally different - consciousness, living, thinking, feeling, believing, sentient creatures - from materials that don't have that? That is getting something from nothing - and violates the Law of Causality for the materialist darwinist. The idea of getting a mind to squirt into existence by starting with brute, dead, mindless matter - unless you deny that conciousness exists, but that might be a little difficult given the fact that a concious mind would be reading and perceiving what is written. Things don't look hopeful form the materialist, darwinist since even they are admitting, for the most part, that there is a thing called consiousness.

So, without apology to Descartes:"Cogito, ergo Deus est! I think, therefore God is!" as Stuart C. Hackett expressed it.

58 posted on 05/24/2009 10:07:48 PM PDT by Texas Songwriter
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