Posted on 05/22/2009 10:41:30 PM PDT by neverdem
I have a question.
Using that site http://www.fueleconomy.gov/ are the fuel economy numbers adjusted to normalize pre/post 2008 testing standards?
For 2008 and newer models, the testing standards are different and tougher. Sort of like the old Horsepower ratings on muscle cars to today’s cars, you can’t compare the two, it’s not apples and apples. A car that was rated to have say 22highway in 1993 probably would rate 19 highway or so for 2009.
Then there is ethanol. When ethanol is blended into the gasoline the mileage decreases. That is, it takes more fuel to travel a given number of miles on ethanol blend than it did on undiluted gasoline. If the amount of ethanol added is 10% as it is, and the decrease in mileage is 15%+ as actually is, the ethanol actually increases the amount of gasoline consumed.
The net result is an increase in the amount of imported gasoline as a result of blending in ethanol.
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So it only can re-use the energy of slowing down?Every time you slow down, it makes more juice!
How does that help HIGHWAY mileage?
Obviously if you are on the highway, you do very little braking compared to city driving, and the benefit of regeneration of braking energy is de minimus. AFAIK hybrid vehicles attain much of their efficiency by using the electrical generator and battery to control the speed and power output of the gasoline engine to allow it to operate at the RPM and power at which it is most fuel-efficient.A primary disadvantage of the diesel engine is the relatively low RPM limit imposed by the massive pistons and connecting rods needed to withstand the "diesel knock" which occurs in normal operation. And although the diesel is so much more expensive and more efficient than the gasoline engine that it would be less necessary, I keep expecting someone to come up with a diesel/electric hybrid to minimize the RPM sensitivity of the diesel by holding RPM constant. That could be one response to the Obama efficiency mandate . . .
Good post. You made some very solid, succinct, inarguable points. 0bama is about to take the one above away from you.
I used to go to junkyards quite a bit. That can be a real eye-opening exercise. You see some vehicles that look like they’ve been smashed by the hand of God.
That is what I have noticed — roughly a 15% reduction in mileage with 10% ethanol.
I hate the stuff, and I am extremely prejudiced against those idiots who forced that crap on us!
Every chance I get to bad mouth an environmental whacko, I do so.
They and the PC Police will be the absolute ruination of this country.
More to the point, I’m keeping my 1990 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham. When it needs repairing, it’ll get repaired.
I’m averaging 17.8 mpg over 126,600 miles of combined highway/city driving, and 21 mpg on the highway is not at all uncommon. And that is with that #%&@ing ethanol!
Plus, it is a large, comfortable car. A keeper!
...The BMW 335d clean diesel sedan arrives in showrooms this month, followed by the BMW X5 clean diesel SUV in January. Before the public has had a chance to decide on the value equation of its first two luxury diesel vehicles in the $40,000 to $50,000 price range, BMW is now considering an even more expensive clean diesel 7-series sedan.
The European 730d is powered by a turbocharged six-cylinder diesel engine and yields 45 miles per gallon. Even with this impressive fuel efficiency, BMW is gambling on a much-improved economy, and the price of gasoline heading back up, by the time the diesel 7-series would arrive sometime in mid-2010.... http://www.hybridcars.com/buying-decision/bmws-7-series-diesel-possibly-headed-us-25304.html
Don’t be fooled by the miles per gallon stats game.
Sure going from 10 to 20 saves a LOT of money on fuel.
Going from 20 to 30 a bit more.
But beyond that, the cost / savings ratio is really bad.
Sure going from 10 to 20 saves a LOT of money on fuel.
Going from 20 to 30 a bit more....
Maybe I missed the math class that taught that 50% was more than 100%...
I understand your gist, but when gasoline gets back to $4+, and you MUST drive, a little can be a lot!
Theoretically fuel efficiency approaches infinity as speed approaches zero, so it is possible to get 200mpg however the vehicle would have to move at turtle speed. Air conditioner, fan, radio energy use though increase with travel time so this limits fuel efficiency in the real world.
Even today's small hybrids use bigger motors than that. You aren't going to replace a 5L (~320ci) engine with a 1L engine plus a small electric motor. It turns out that for space efficiency and distance traveled, you can't beat a tank of gas and an internal combustion engine - except if you use diesel.
The electric engines in hybrids aren't used at highway speeds. The electric engine has an advantage in the stop and go, and low speed regimes where speed changes a lot. On the open road, the inefficiencies involved in running the gas engine through an alternator to drive the electric motor mean that you just run the gas engine only. So, if the gas engine isn't big enough to drive the entire load at highway speeds, it isn't big enough.
And your example of a racing engine fails, as racing engines aren't required to meet road car emissions or noise standards. Meeting both those standards will reduce power and mileage.
What car makers have done in the past is a careful balance of improved fuel economy, drivability and utility. Obama's standards will throw practical considerations out the window and vehicles will be designed solely to meet fuel efficiency standards. The 30 mpg truck will by necessity have very limited cargo capacity and likely no towing ability. Many businesses as well a farmers and ranchers depend on trucks for heavy duty jobs, large load capacity and hauling trailers. Who does Lord Obama think will buy these vehicles when they cannot do the job?
Any gas guzzler that can pass an emissions test does not impact the environment in any way. Environmental idiots confuse saving gas with protecting the environment. These are the same morons who think recycling paper saves rain forests.
Don’t confuse the issue with facts! Shady hates Fords, and therefore he owned a couple of (non-existent) Focuses (foci? LOL) in the 1990’s and they were crap. In that vein:
Every GM product I’ve ever owned has been an unmitigated pile of excrement, but until now I have refrained from posting about how utterly pathetic GM engineering and build quality has been in my experience. I’d buy a Peugeot before another CheBuPoCad. Then there’s Saturn (cars for people who hate cars).
I’ll stick with my older Fords and Internationals. Reliable, tough, and just a little quirky.
Should I decide to buy new, there isn’t one offering GM or Chrysler can make that doesn’t have the taint of subsidy and 0bama (ptui) to it. I rented a GM Envoy last January, and it wasn’t near as awful as my previous experiences with GM products, giving me second thoughts about my “Just Say No to GM” stance, and then this auto bailout occurred.
My ‘89 Crown Vic STILL gets 30mpg on the highway. 302/AOD, full load.
70 MPH, 30 MPG all day long while sitting in the living room. Gotta like it!
I sold mine when it was approaching 260,000 miles.
I miss my boat. If I could buy one exactly like it brand new I would.
Oh yes, some you wonder if they got out alive. Too many crazy inattentive drivers out there. Real bad here in PA, they don’t know what that double yellow line is for, never saw so many riding the line and/or crossing it. I never had to use my horn as much as I do now.
Using that site http://www.fueleconomy.gov/ are the fuel economy numbers adjusted to normalize pre/post 2008 testing standards?
I have no idea. Maybe it's answered by a motorhead already on the thread. I haven't finished reading it yet. I'm doing some other stuff right now.
Regarding claimed mileage, you can’t compare 80s window sticker numbers to modern cars. The EPA changed the test to give lower results in 1984, and again in 2007. 50 then would be about 35 now.
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Who goes by window stickers? I bought a 1980 Pontiac Pheonix new and on a trip from Florence, South Carolina to Kennett Square, Pennsylvania with three adults, a twelve year old and a trunk full of luggage I averaged 34.2 miles per gallon as calculated from meticulously recorded mileage and fuel records. The car was reasonably roomy and comfortable for the trip,(I am 6’ 4” and weighed about 220 at the time) it was air conditioned and I drove at interstate speed. Why is it such a big deal to find a car that will do the same thing today, almost thirty years later?
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