The Pope's Stand in Obama's Notre Dame Controversy (Vatical Silent)

Time ^ | 16 May 09 | Amy Sullivan

[SkyPilot]

At the rate things are going, Pope Benedict XVI may find his next trip to the U.S. dogged by airplanes overhead trailing banners with images of aborted fetuses. O.K., that's a bit of hyperbole. But while several prominent conservative Catholics in this country are apoplectic over the University of Notre Dame's invitation of the pro-choice Barack Obama to give the school's commencement address on May 17, the Vatican has stayed completely silent on the matter.

The two very different reactions to the question of whether a Catholic institution should honor anyone who disagrees with the Church's teaching on abortion are just the latest examples of the strikingly divergent responses American Catholic leaders and the Vatican have had to the Obama Administration.

Three-quarters of Catholics either approve of or offer no opinion on Notre Dame's decision to invite Obama, and the same percentage of U.S. bishops have opted to stay out of the fight.

[SkyPilot]

Every news headline I tune into this morning is triumphantly showing the picture of Obama lecturing to Notre Dame and being honored by them.

His propaganda victory is already won.

Obama's disciples have been emboldened now.

The controversy surrounding the appearance of President Obama at the University of Notre Dame's commencement ceremonies reverberated through at least one local Catholic graduation yesterday, with the president of Trinity Washington University denouncing the "religious vigilantism" of those who opposed Obama's visit and calling their protests "an embarrassment to all Catholics." The remarks by Trinity President Patricia McGuire were among the speeches given at graduation ceremonies big and small across the region. The speakers included White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel........The real scandal at Notre Dame today is not that the president of the United States is speaking at commencement," McGuire said. "The real scandal is the misappropriation of sacred teachings for political ends. The real scandal is the spectacle of ostensibly Catholic mobs camping out at Notre Dame for the specific purpose of disrupting the commencement address of the nation's first African American president. This ugly spectacle is an embarrassment to all Catholics. The face that Catholicism shows to our new president should be one marked with the sign of peace, not distorted in the snarl of hatred." McGuire continued, "The religious vigilantism apparent in the Notre Dame controversy arises from organizations that have no official standing with the church, but who are successful in gaining media coverage as if they were speaking for Catholicism. . . . They have established themselves as uber-guardians of a belief system we can hardly recognize. Theirs is a narrow faith devoted almost exclusively to one issue. They defend the rights of the unborn but have no charity toward the living. They mock social justice as a liberal mythology."

White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel speaks of life lessons to the crowd at George Washington University's commencement ceremonies on the Mall.

Ah yes, "social justice." "Narrow faith." I also like how she threw in the insinuation that anyone who opposed Obama was a racist.

[wagglebee]

In terms of world press and public? Compared to the Pope?

A statement was made on behalf of the Pope. Generally these matters are dealt with on a diocesan level.

Ah yes, "above his pay grade?" This is precisely what I was saying to you. I am tired of this "out of my hands" approach by the church. Notre Dame is private - it is also a Catholic University. You mean to tell me the Pope has no sway of it? Come on. Be real. Even if Notre Dame refused, the Pope could have slammed them but good.

He HAS, you are ignoring it.

Gee, that does a lot of good. Now we are right back to square one. "Private" statements don't cut it. The battle here is in the public arena.

You are exhibiting your ignorance of both Church custom and Biblical mandates for dealing with such matters.

Keep in mind that up until the actual speech and the honorary degree, Jenkins had done NOTHING WRONG.

[Colofornian]

This is the most active the Church has been about abortion since it went legal. The uproar about ND would never have happened in the 70s-90’s. But look at how many folks here are buying the spin, like it is the worst it has ever been. The left has to be scared silly that the Church might start doing a fraction of what it should have been doing all along when it comes to baby butchery.

(Yeah, well, we'll see how far the "uproar" advances by taking a look to see if this impacts ND football ticket sales. If it doesn't, the left won't be "scared silly" by wimpy men who won't even be able to put Obama-ground-up babies before their Fall Saturday delights)

[Ransomed]

70+ bishops spoke out fairly forcefully about ND. That is a HUGE improvement over the usual limp-wristed responses, both in tone and numbers even if it is only 1/3 of US bishops who are doing barely 1/2 of what should have been going on all along concerning baby butchery.

These bishops speaking out despite the fact that they no doubt would LOVE to cozy up to prez. O because of his minority status and “social justice” ideas is a really good sign that dwarfs whatever ND fans might do or not.

Ask yourself why the pro-baby butcherists would want to characterize this uproar as a really weak response from the Church, when in reality it is the strongest yet.

Freegards

[SkyPilot]

Vatican newspaper says Obama sought 'common ground' at Notre Dame

Sad news ping.

[SkyPilot]

Sorry buddy - forgot to ping you (link at post #105).

[Revolting cat!]

Please stop this parochial hand wringing. Archbishop Burke, Vatican's Supreme Justice, spoke. The Pontiff is not going to address your every provincial concern. He ain't going to speak about Bela Pelosi, or about Cynthia Nixon's "marriage". He don't watch Americans Idle neither. Imagine that!

[SkyPilot]

The Pontiff is not going to address your every provincial concern.

Oh please.

The Pope had no problem lecturing Israel, and yet he can't comment on the President of the United States lecturing as to what a good or bad Catholic is?

What was surprising, and ought to be disturbing to anyone who cares about religious freedom in these United States, was the president’s decision to insert himself into the ongoing Catholic debate over the boundaries of Catholic identity and the applicability of settled Catholic conviction in the public square. Obama did this by suggesting, not altogether subtly, who the real Catholics in America are. The real Catholics, you see, are those like the late Cardinal Joseph Bernardin, who are “congenial and gentle” in persuasion, men and women who are “always trying to bring people together,” Catholics who are “always trying to find the common ground.” The fact that Cardinal Bernardin’s undoubted geniality and gentility in bringing people together to find the common ground invariably ended with a “consensus” that matched the liberal or progressive position of the moment went unremarked — because, for a good postmodern liberal like President Obama, that progressive “consensus” is so self-evidently true that one can afford to be generous in acknowledging that others, less enlightened but arguably sincere, have different views.

And doing it from the podium of a Catholic University on one of the most important issues to the church (according to the church itself?)

Now, we have the Vatican Newspaper rubbing salt in the wound?

I know you are running defense here, but is it too much to ask for a little leadership?

Or is it time to just completely fold and appoint Nancy Pelosi as a Vatican Canon Lawyer?

[Revolting cat!]

The Vatican newspaper does not speak for the Pope. Archbishop Burke spoke, 70 U.S> bishops spoke, and that's plenty enough. Otherwise it is a parochial matter, and not comparable to the human rights concerns whatever they might be in Palestine.

Otherwise, why don't we demand that the Pope speak on the habit of the Notre Dame football players, few if any of them Catholic, of swearing every week on the field, or the habit of female students there to interject their cell phone conversations every 30 seconds with "Oh, my God!"

The country is lost worshipping whoever was just elected POTUS, his semi-literate idiot wife and his Jewish Svengali. More of those students there (@ND) listen to Simon Cowell than to the Pope.

[Zionist Conspirator]

As I said before, traditional Catholicism is not particularly sympathetic to Jewish claims to the Holy Land.

As for the ND thing, yeah, big disappointment, though not really a surprise.

[saradippity]

Can't you see that the MSM is trying to force the Pope to speak out?

They know at this time there is still a large group of malcontents,and/or poorly informed catholics as well as numerous infiltrators and impostors specifically dedicated to bring down the Church and the MSM and their controllers are doing their best to egg the Pope into speaking out prematurely.

Then they can interview a gaggle of the aforementioned,who will tell them that in this "New Order" the Pope is just a antediluvian dinosaur and nobody pays attention to him anyway.

It takes far more intelligence,patience,holiness and humility to hold ones tongue in the face of the attacks the Church is undergoing right now than to charge out there on the proverbial white horse and loudly proclaim the "truth" only find that many in your army had been seduced by the "father of lies".

I believe the Pope knows exactly what he's doing probably because the Holy Spirit guides him in all truth.

[Revolting cat!]

Thank you for your calm words.

[saradippity]

I must have something terribly wrong in my scriptural understanding. I thought that God was quite displeased when His children made and worshiped the golden calf,I have always equated that golden calf with putting other gods or entities or money or pleasures before Him. Am I wrong?

[SkyPilot]

Can't you see that the MSM is trying to force the Pope to speak out?

Really? I don't see that at all.

I see many of his flock of Catholics looking for the Pope to speak out.

Unfortunately, that train has pretty much left the station, and Obama got away with defining what "good" Catholicism is to the world with his speech (and for good measure defined abortion in his own terms).

Why is a simple Vatican condemnation of Obama so hard. Why the teeth pulling? Why push the underlings to the front of the stage, if at all to condemn this?

Moreover, how can this be a bad thing if the Pope responds to the controversy?

I don't get this at all, and your theory makes no sense. If the Pope has the moral high ground on the abortion issue, and he certainly does as well as possesses the criteria to define faithful Catholicism better than Obama who attempted to usurp that authority in his Notre Dame speech - why not respond?

They know at this time there is still a large group of malcontents,and/or poorly informed catholics as well as numerous infiltrators and impostors specifically dedicated to bring down the Church and the MSM and their controllers are doing their best to egg the Pope into speaking out prematurely.

Prematurely? For heavens sake - the time to strike was last week. That opportunity is past.

Obama connects while deflecting abortion furor

Now, we have a Vatican affiliated newspaper (that folks here are trying to tell everyone really isn't affiliated with the Vatican) praising Obama!

Then they can interview a gaggle of the aforementioned,who will tell them that in this "New Order" the Pope is just a antediluvian dinosaur and nobody pays attention to him anyway.

Fine. So? That is the excuse why he cannot respond? Because he will be criticized? Is that anyway for Christ's representative on earth to behave?

It takes far more intelligence,patience,holiness and humility to hold ones tongue in the face of the attacks the Church is undergoing right now than to charge out there on the proverbial white horse and loudly proclaim the "truth" only find that many in your army had been seduced by the "father of lies".

I've got news for you. Millions of Catholics are already seduced by Satan's lies. How many of them voted for Obama, Pelosi, Kennedy, Dodd, etc?

The latest poll has 67% of Catholics supporting Obama.

Poll: 67% of Catholics approve of the job Obama’s doing

Obama, Notre Dame: Catholics approve

I believe the Pope knows exactly what he's doing probably because the Holy Spirit guides him in all truth. I believe the Pope knows exactly what he's doing probably because the Holy Spirit guides him in all truth.

I certainly won't question the Holy Spirit being with the Pope - but I wouldn't say he is manifesting its courage right now.

God does not give us a spirit of timidity, but of boldness to defend Him.

[SkyPilot]

I must have something terribly wrong in my scriptural understanding. I thought that God was quite displeased when His children made and worshiped the golden calf,I have always equated that golden calf with putting other gods or entities or money or pleasures before Him. Am I wrong?

Bunny, meet pancake.

I have no idea where you are getting this cynical and out of context response to anything I said.

How is the Pope not responding equitable to my non-voicing non-existent support for worshiping golden calfs or false gods?

[SkyPilot]

The Vatican newspaper does not speak for the Pope.

If the Vatican newspaper does not speak for him, then he better disavow them publically - today. Doesn't that make any sense to you?

Archbishop Burke spoke, 70 U.S> bishops spoke, and that's plenty enough.

Obviously, not. Obama ripped a hole right through the heart of Catholic teaching in a very public speech that was broadcast around the entire world. Notre Dame honored Obama for it. The Vatican never released an official statement of condemnation. You keep telling me about these Bishops that mentioned something the week before Obama spoke. Obama was not dis-invited, and since his caustic speech, there has been nothing from the Vatican except an affiliated newspaper giving Obama praise!

Otherwise it is a parochial matter, and not comparable to the human rights concerns whatever they might be in Palestine.

It wasn't a "human rights" issue with the Palestinians. It was a direct statement from the Pope that Israel must capitulate to the Palestinians threats, give them land, and ignore the Muslim worlds promises of destruction.

Moreover, Obama's "sermon" to the Notre Dame audience attacked the dignity of human life. If you believe that is a "parochial matter" then there is not point in debating further.

Obama also redefined what a good Catholic is. See the National Review Online piece I posted on this thread.

Otherwise, why don't we demand that the Pope speak on the habit of the Notre Dame football players, few if any of them Catholic, of swearing every week on the field, or the habit of female students there to interject their cell phone conversations every 30 seconds with "Oh, my God!" Good heavens. You really think that is an equivalent argument? You think Obamas invasion into Catholic doctrine and teaching is the same as that? I am speechless.

The country is lost worshipping whoever was just elected POTUS, his semi-literate idiot wife and his Jewish Svengali. More of those students there (@ND) listen to Simon Cowell than to the Pope.

I'll let your words be your own rope.

[wintertime]

You are exhibiting your ignorance of both Church
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Count me among the stupid.

I just don't understand the silence from the Pope and the lack of meaningful action.

[SkyPilot]

And now, Obama dances his "Victory Dance" and wipes his feet with the Vatican.

News headline from this morning:

Vatican Off Obama’s Itinerary

The Vatican is hopeful of a presidential visit. Father Ciro Benedettini, deputy director of the Vatican Press Office, told me the Holy See is “waiting” to hear from the administration but noted the U.S. embassy to the Holy See is still without an ambassador. Father Benedettini said it’s usual for a visiting head of state to visit the Holy Father when passing through Rome, but he added that so far “nothing concrete” had been planned. According to Rome sources, just over a week ago the Vatican had still not received “first contact” from the administration to start visit preparations.

Abused wife syndrome.

But the fact that the Vatican was not on the itinerary released over the weekend, that steps have hardly been taken to arrange a meeting, and that a Vatican ambassador has yet to be appointed is perhaps revealing of how low down on the list of priorities the Holy See is at the White House.

And there you have it.