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To: Lazamataz
If all the culture we see is commercial culture, and all the society we see is consumer society, then the best we can do is walk away from it, and look for other people who are ready to do the same.

This is a highly debatable proposition. A native Russian observing the commercialization and generalization of American cultural values through these channels might be forgiven for his mistake, but he may, in fact, be very, very wrong on this point.

There is a set of "values of the forum" that is older than Babylon, and they aren't hard to detect in operation on the American scene -- putting prices on life, for example, as in the case of abortion, setting "limits" (triage and rationing, assisted-suicide debates, ethical proposals concerning passive and active euthanasia) to socialized medical care, and so on -- but many "commercial" values are in fact intrinsically American and reflect the commercial world's adaptation to American customers.

Ergo, the author's insistence that social and cultural collapse are imminent or underway, may be very much mistaken, particularly since evaluating his statement -- as well as making such a statement -- requires somehow standing apart from a social experiment which one is observing from inside the experimental vessel.

31 posted on 05/16/2009 6:27:28 PM PDT by lentulusgracchus
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To: lentulusgracchus

Well played.


34 posted on 05/16/2009 6:30:34 PM PDT by Lazamataz ("We beat the Soviet Union, then we became them." -- Lazamataz, 2005)
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To: lentulusgracchus

Economic collapse is certainly underway. Complete financial collapse has been temporarily slowed down due to the massive printing of money and the seeming willingness of virtually every other country including China. I don’t think the author counted upon the virtual destruction of fiat currencies by every in the world. The question is how will the country stay together when the dollar becomes worthless or nearly worthless. If you listen to Gerald Celente he is predicting that our cities will become mini-Mexico Cities with daily kidnappings, out of control crime etc. Its hard to fathom such a situation in the USA, but our system has become more and more fragile.


40 posted on 05/16/2009 6:36:05 PM PDT by appeal2
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To: lentulusgracchus
... evaluating his statement -- as well as making such a statement -- requires somehow standing apart from a social experiment which one is observing from inside the experimental vessel.

I run intoi the same problem when I contemplate this question: Am I insane?

53 posted on 05/16/2009 6:50:00 PM PDT by Cyber Liberty (Pretending the Admin Moderator doesn't exist will result in suspension.)
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To: lentulusgracchus
One thing he knows about is the liberals’ re-invented culture with no roots in American culture. I we would call it humanist multiculturalism.

However, he does not realize that much of America has not been culturally cleansed yet and he knows not of what exists beyond what he is “educated” to know about America by liberals.

Economic collapse will be harder on those who have adopted liberalism's culture and identity which is devoid of anything higher than materialism and socialism's entitlement. That would be the Federal dependency crowd who think they have free stuff coming to them and do not have the internal resources and personal character or morals to cope with entitlement drying up. They will steal and gang thug on others.

The author is not of aware of ideas of American private altruism. He thinks if we don't like Federal welfare we are stingy and mean and give nothing and help no one. That is what liberals have told him and it is probably the only experience of those immersed in the humanist culture encounter.

127 posted on 05/17/2009 9:22:35 AM PDT by SaraJohnson
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