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To: luvbach1; A_Former_Democrat
The reference here uses the UK term "travelers". These folks are not "Vlach" Gypsies ~ rather, they are indigenous to the UK.

A history lesson is in order. Way back when England began consolidating gains throughout its "near abroad" empire (consisting of Scotland, the Hebrides, the Orkneys and Ireland) they passed what are called the "Enclosure Laws".

These laws allowed wealthy land owners to "enclose land" to raise sheep (which simply can't be allowed to run loose in UK, that being a very populous part of the world).

The landowners could reduce the number of tenants on that land as farming technology was improving at the time, AND, best of all, simply toss squatters outside the fences into the public roadway.

These actions were definitely unpopular with the masses of poor rural people who then had no choice but to move to urban areas and seek employment in industry, then operated in factories just this side of hellholes.

The lucky ones could get jobs in coalmines or as prostitutes.

Definitely NOT a good time to live in Merry Olde England. Many Freepers have ancestors who left the Old World at that time to come to America, and they never looked back.

There arose a small group of folks living in the "border regions" (where England and Scotland join) who appear to have joined up with real Vlach Gypsies who'd been arriving in UK since the early 1600s. The Vlach, themselves, consisting mostly of a mixed group of Latin speaking people and Romany, built up a well-deserved reputation for petty theft, strong arm robbery, and independence.

For a variety of reasons (intense poverty, better roads, and desperation) the Border people became the Travelers. When they first appeared in Ireland they continued the same practice ~ living on the road, working on pots and pans, singing and dancing ~ and obtained even more adherents. These people have a colony in the United States in the state of South Carolina. They are known as "The Murphies".

Most Traveler groups are so similar to Gypsies in their way of life and use of the Romany language they can be said to have adhered to the Romnachel way of life.

It would be wrong to say that this is in any way a question of "diversity". These guys are as English as their more settled cousins who live in nice suburbs in nice houses and hold whitecollar jobs. Same bloodlines, DNA, ethnicity ~ all same, same.

27 posted on 05/14/2009 7:30:46 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah; luvbach1; A_Former_Democrat

The language of the Travellers is Shelta (also called Gammon), a Celtic language derived from Irish, with many of the differences having originated as deliberate transpositions or insertions to render the speech difficult for Irish speakers to understand. There are a few bits and pieces of the Romany language that have crept in, but very little, and they were late additions to the Shelta language.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shelta

Their origins are murky, and probably quite a bit older than what your post suggests, though the enclosure issue certainly would have boosted their numbers, as people who might otherwise have left the group didn’t have any more attractive options outside of it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Traveller


47 posted on 05/14/2009 7:49:39 AM PDT by GovernmentShrinker
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To: muawiyah

I didn’t know thee were so many varieties of Gypsies. I guess when I think Gysies it’s the Vlach variety who “...built up a well-deserved reputation for petty theft [and] strong arm robbery...”


93 posted on 05/14/2009 10:07:32 AM PDT by luvbach1 (Worse than we could have imagined.)
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To: muawiyah

Scotland was not part of any English empire.

Wales(1284)& Ireland (1607) were by conquest part of the English Empire prior to 1707, when Scotland joined the United Kingdom by choice.

Nor were the Shetlands and Orkneys ever English, they were Scots also in 1707, having passed to us from Norwegian ownership in 1468 and 1472. The Shetlands were also originally Pictish anyway, having been conquered by the Vikings. And the Hebrides has been Scottish since 1266. And again, previously Norwegian, not English.


113 posted on 05/14/2009 2:39:07 PM PDT by the scotsman
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