[puroresu]

Social conservatives recognize that certain behaviors have consequences, LEFTIST consequences, and therefore it is within the realm of government to restrain those behaviors.

There will never be a society in which both Christians and homosexuals are “free” and in which they both live openly and respect one another's existence. Such a society is as absurd as imagining a nation in which Muslims and Jews live together in peace and harmony. It won't happen. It can't happen.

Either homosexuals will be closeted, or the full engine of the state will be harnessed to promote homosexuality and to suppress anyone who disapproves of homosexuality. The former requires some government. The latter requires a ton of government. The former is healthy, the latter isn't.

The libertarian dream of a world of individual autonomy units who don't care what the other guy thinks or does is as much of a fantasy as the Marxist utopia. It just has never existed in the real world, and it cannot exist because ideas and behaviors have consequences.

[steve-b]

There will never be a society in which both Christians and homosexuals are “free” and in which they both live openly and respect one another's existence. Such a society is as absurd as imagining a nation in which Muslims and Jews live together in peace and harmony.

When come back, bring history books.

Since your argument is based on a false premise, it fails automatically.

[steve-b]

Social conservatives recognize that certain behaviors have consequences, LEFTIST consequences, and therefore it is within the realm of government to restrain those behaviors.

You are describing social-engineering totalitarians, not any form of "conservative". A genuine "social conservative" influences by leadership and example, and eschews government as he eschews other forms of evil. A counterfeit "social conservative" whines for his welfare check in the form of guvmint doing his work for him, and eagerly offers his wrists and ankles for fettering (since he is too lazy to get up and work, he does not notice any loss in having them chained).

[steve-b]

There will never be a society in which both Christians and homosexuals are "free" and in which they both live openly and respect one another's existence.

Quite a few Christian sects have no problem doing just that. Two errors of historical fact in one sentence -- how very efficient of you.

[theBuckwheat]

While I am sympathetic to what you have posted, the problem lies in the society itself. As John Adams famously said, â€Å“Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.â€�

How does one construct a government for a society when every citizen has rights, including the right to vote, and then we face a segment of the population whose values we realize are hostile to our own? Well, I don't know, nor do I care what my neighbor does in private. I only care when his values animate behavior that seeks to destroy my own rights and liberty.

The problem is that we have allowed government to intrude into so many areas of our lives that we cannot live our lives outside of its approval or compliance with its tens of thousands of rules and regulations. It has come to the point that various groups seek to protect and advance their agendas, not by association or persuasion, but by seizing and manipulating government policy. This is very true in setting lesson plans for public schools. It is very true in health policy.

Your solution implies that social conservatives attempt to regain control over government and (re)impose their values via government policy. The day when this could succeed is now mostly in our rear view mirror. The day when, for example, government could force retail stores to close on Sunday (which was the case until about 20 years ago), is long gone. How many of us want to live where government imposes a day of rest? (I for one do not, for I observe the Sabbath, and I could not be in the retail business if I could not open my shop on Sunday.) In the state I live in, this law persists to this very moment. Automobile dealerships must be closed on Sunday.

No, the solution is to realize that was an improper use of the armed agents of coercive government policy. In order to prevent leftists, homosexuals, pagans and other people that social conservatives disagree with on a policy and values basis, from seizing government and doing to us what we did to them, we must scale back government to such an extent that it becomes impossible for anyone to do that.

This is not a "libertarian dream". We only have to reflect on how the Nazis, who were really National *Socialists*, used the progressive values of eugenics to justify sterilization and murder of many people they considered to be defective. Well, excuse me, we don't have to go all the way back to Nazi Germany, for our own *progressives* in our own states used state power to force defective people to be sterilized.

It was not that many years ago that progressives seized state power to destroy the unalienable rights of some citizens. Knowing what policy chaos that progressives can wreak in society makes it an urgent matter to roll back government to its rightful place in society- to protect every citizen, and make the country work, but very little else!

Either we will see the various states legally enshrine the rights of homosexuals to "marry", and thus use the State to take the next obvious step: to insist that public schools and public policy recognize those "unions", or else we get government out of the marriage business. For when homosexuals are "equal" in this respect, it is easier for their status to justify "hate crimes" when anyone speaks the moral truth about sodomy.

Even so, how does one deny a homosexual single woman the ability to adopt a child, a right that a heterosexual single woman? Upon what basis shall we discriminate one from the other based, not upon Christian values which carry no weight in court, but upon the equality implied and stated in the Constitution?

We cannot unring the bell. We must adopt policy that moves us towards being able to fully enjoy our rights irrespective of what other people may think of them. That gives us the ability to advocate for those rights, to tell others why morality is important, even as too many voices today think morality is old fashioned.