Posted on 05/06/2009 7:47:05 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet
Hypothetical: It is proven that Obama was born outside the US. Would all laws and Presidential decrees become null and void?
If Obama was ineligible then he did not legally get a majority and neither did anyone else. Biden did, but only as Vice-President, not as President.
If Obama is ineligible to be the President, then any laws he “signed into law” have not been signed by the President and were therefore not legally signed into law.
I can’t wait for the lawsuits.
I understand all of it, you seem to have skipped a few to come to your conclusion.
“That is a political consideration of no legal importance. The 25th amendment is clear.”
On this we may have to agree to disagree. I hold that - Our political system stems from a foundation of law, and is still subject to the law. We simply have to find the correct law(s) and see the law(s) applied.
The 25th Amendment is clear only on: the order of succession, and that such succession may occur in the even of the incapacity of the President (for whatever reason).
I also disagree - though only slightly - about the impeachment provision of our Constitution. It establishes impeachment as A process, not explicitly THE process for removing a President. The language does not limit us to impeachment nor preclude us from any other form of remedy or redresss of our grievances if you will.
A process that involved both the legislative and judicial branches in prosecution would not run roughshod over the system’s protections.
Hypothetically let’s say that: the Democrat majority (not 100% of all House Dems, just a clear majority) deliberately declined to consider overwhelming evidence of Obama’s ineligibility, as well as other crimes, and refused to engage the impeachment process. However a Senate Committee wants to investigate, and several key House Democrats and all the House Republicans who have viewed and tested the evidence, spoken with sworn witnesses, etc...are called to testify before the Senate Committee.
The Senate Committee votes unanimously afterwards to take action. They present all the evidence jointly to the Justice Dep’t, and/or go the “Special Prosecutor” route.
All of the same individuals testify, the Senators and the Justice Dept arrive at the same conclusion: Laws have been broken - and there is sufficient evidence to bring criminal indictment against Obama.
Perhaps they also take their findings to (Robert Byrd) Senate Pres. Pro Tempore, and then call a news conference to go fully public with their findings as you mentioned.
Of course we are speaking in absolutely hypothetical terms here, but it would certainly seem that a “marriage” of the political and the legal system could accomplish what a balky demo majority in the House of Reps might be unwilling to.
It could at least facilitate an unprecedented level of public outcry that would in turn spur a response by representatives empowered to act. “Compelling political pressure” as you refer to it.
TailgunnerJoe’s post immediately after yours makes a good point - that if Obama was ineligible, nobody received a true majority of votes for President, and the House would possibly be empowered to vote for someone. Still not especially palatable, potentially.
Where there’s a will, there’s always a way.
It would be my hope that the dissatisfaction of voters would register so strongly that all the cabinet secretaries would then have the human decency and/or the political savvy to tender their resignations.
That said, the notion of President Biden or President Pelosi is as daunting as what we are dealing with right now
I appreciate the measured discussion and your contributions to it.
A.A.C.
She is referring to the image of the COLB that was taken from the FightTheSmears site set up by the Obama team.
Behold: The Undocumented President
Thanks for the clarification. Hawaiian officials are obstructing!
Nothing more nothing less.
FYI. Off subject FAA support systems have been hacked and breached in recent months!
Actually, that is wrong. The 20th Amendment says, “if the President elect shall have failed to qualify, then the Vice President elect shall act as President until a President shall have qualified”.
If Obama failed to qualify, then he was not qualified during the entire time he was President elect. Biden should then be declared Acting President. Everything Obama has done would be null and void. Everything.
In turn, that would trigger race riots the likes of which this nation has never seen, which is why the USSC will not address the issue. The legal scholars on the Court know all that. They know Obama hasn’t qualified and that if he could qualify, then he would have done so by now. But they will do nothing, for fear of tearing the nation apart.
Point of Order: Biden would be President (Amendment XXV, Section 1).
Obama and Biden got the majority of the electoral votes, and I'd be willing to point you to any number of sources that agree with that. They won the election, they were sworn in in January, and the 20th Amendment no longer applies. Now if for any reason, any reason at all, Obama is removed from office then Biden is President per the 25th Amendment.
No, that is irrelevant to the case at hand. If Obama is judged to have failed to qualify, then he was never President, so XXV does not apply. It is illogical to remove from office someone who was never legally in office.
XX Sec 3 applies directly.
You are completely wrong. The election happened and the administration was sworn in. You don't get a do-over on that. If it is found that Obama deliberately lied about his qualification in order to become president then he'll be removed. But the 25th Amendment kicks in, not the 20th.
Nearly every day of the week courts declare actions null and void, and turn back the clock to the date of the nullification and undo what has been done.
But we’ll never know what would happen in this case - see #251.
Personally, I think if 0bama does not meet the minimal requirements for the office massive charges of fraud, treason, election violations, etc. could, would, should, and be demanded to be brought against the DNC. An investigation into all the congressional critters that pushed, prodded, threatened, and intimidated members into silence.
But boy, what a thriller of a book plot this would be.
That's a sound philosophical position, but there's no basis for it in the law. There is no legal basis to retroactively undo an election, and that's the sort of thing that we look upon as an undemocratic banana republic tactic when it's employed elsewhere.
If there is a Constitutional basis for it. There is plenty in the Constitution detailing how to handle a vacancy in the presidency, but nothing in the Constitution allowing a do-over on elections.
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