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To: Ancesthntr
That stubbornness, that lack of any willingness to use those tools that G-d Himself gave to us (like eyes and a brain) paints all religious people as being ignorant, closed-minded, etc., and causes many to lose faith and many others (like the NY Times, Newsweek, etc.) to ridicule faith.

You think God gave us eyes and a brain to discredit His Word? Fact is - we are told not to rely on what we see or hear.

paints all religious people as being ignorant,...

In Jesus' time, the 'religious' are the ones that came against Jesus due to what 'they thought'. There are religious people and there are those that have a personal relationship with God. The religious ones are concerned how they are looked at by others, etc. Those that know God could give a rip what anyone thinks or says about them - for they KNOW they have God's approval and that's all that matters.

causes many to lose faith and many others (like the NY Times, Newsweek, etc.) to ridicule faith.

Lose faith? One is not grounded if they lose their faith. LOL! What does the NYT and the other rags know about 'faith'? Only what their carnal mind tells them. The HS is The Teacher - all truth comes through HIM. You think these rags are filled with the Holy Spirit? And why the concern about what they say or think? You are looking for approval by them?
48 posted on 05/01/2009 2:16:01 PM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: presently no screen name
You think God gave us eyes and a brain to discredit His Word? Fact is - we are told not to rely on what we see or hear.

Unreasoning faith is no faith at all. What are you saying, that faith in G-d necessarily withers away with the application of observations and logical reasoning? Actually, many people intimately involved with science have discovered or renewed their faith in the Creator as they have learned more about how the universe that He created is structured and works.

Insofar as not relying on what you see and hear, I'd say that such applies to what other people show you or say to you. Nature does not deceive, people do.

52 posted on 05/01/2009 2:29:07 PM PDT by Ancesthntr (Tyrant: "Spartans, lay down your weapons." Free man: "Persian, come and get them!")
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To: presently no screen name
"paints all religious people as being ignorant,..."

In Jesus' time, the 'religious' are the ones that came against Jesus due to what 'they thought'. There are religious people and there are those that have a personal relationship with God. The religious ones are concerned how they are looked at by others, etc. Those that know God could give a rip what anyone thinks or says about them - for they KNOW they have God's approval and that's all that matters.

Oh, so no one who is "religious" has a "personal relationship with G-d? And all of those with such a "personal relationship" couldn't care less about what others think? Speak for yourself. First, you have serious definitional problems. Second, I've known plenty of religious (which I will define as ritualistically attentive) who are not such decent human beings...just as many of those same types are thoroughly decent human beings. I also know many (both ritualistically attentive and not) who take great care to be decent human beings (what you may call having a "personal relationship" with G-d). The vast majority of them DO care what others think of them - they wisely understand that they are ALL ambassodors for faith in G-d, and that not caring one whit for what others think is a sure recipe for turning all of those people away from such faith. They believe in setting a good example - not compromising their beliefs, mind you, but setting a good behavioral example - by getting along well with others. Religion is, after all, for us humans. G-d doesn't need it, any more than He needs us. He existed long before us (since the beginning of Time, however you choose to define it), and will exist long after we are gone (until the end of Time, etc., etc.).

You paint with such a broad brush that you conclusively demonstrate your ignorance and/or prejudice. Take each person as they are - that's what G-d does (though infinitely better than we are capable of), and I think you'd do best to try to emulate Him to the greatest degree that you can.

"causes many to lose faith and many others (like the NY Times, Newsweek, etc.) to ridicule faith."

Lose faith? One is not grounded if they lose their faith. LOL! What does the NYT and the other rags know about 'faith'?

Every person loses faith at some point in their lives (though not necessarily permanently). That is the nature of free choice: there MUST be doubt. If there is no doubt, then what is the point of existence? To me, human existence is about purifying your soul, making this a better place for those who follow us by making ourselves better. If you have no doubt about the existence of G-d, then you never have to make a choice between Good and Evil, your soul never, ever has a chance to improve itself. I don't know about you and your religion, but to Judaism the existence of doubt in every person is a given. We are tested CONSTANTLY, many times each day, and tested by One Who knows our weaknesses (i.e. where our doubts lie). If you tell me that you have reached the point of never having any doubts, I'd tell you that you are almost certainly violating one of the 10 Commandments, which in and of itself would demonstrate your doubt.

What does the Times know of faith - little or nothing. Which is exactly my point. It and similar papers, magazines and networks are highly influential, and they have undoubtedly caused many with little knowledge of the faith of their fathers to stray, given their inherent bias against religion, morality and the religious/faithful. I choose not to aid their crusade against religion by not conforming with one of their chief stereotypes.

54 posted on 05/01/2009 2:52:50 PM PDT by Ancesthntr (Tyrant: "Spartans, lay down your weapons." Free man: "Persian, come and get them!")
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