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To: metmom
*Logic* and *reason* are constructs of the human mind and so subject to human failings.

Logic and reason are part of God's gift of intellect, the beginning of divinity that evolves us beyond common life and makes us in God's image.

In this day and age to be a creationist is to have rejected God's gift and thereby rejected God. Meanwhile evolutionists have embraced the intellect and accepted God's gift. Even those who accept evolution and are atheists are closer to God's desire for mankind than creationists.

296 posted on 04/28/2009 11:12:23 AM PDT by onewhowatches
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To: onewhowatches

Now that is an interesting point. “Heaven and Earth declare the glory of God”, why ignore it because we are hung up on our 18th century interpretation of what Genesis means?


297 posted on 04/28/2009 11:43:23 AM PDT by mnehring
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To: onewhowatches

It’s always amusing the convoluted thought processes employed by an evo in trying to convince a creationist/Christian that God somehow approves of intellectualism and rationalization over faith in Him and that evos and evolution is right.

Evos are always so sure about how God did things (using evolution) all the while challenging creationists/Christians about how they can be sure about how God does things.

The creationist refers back to God’s Word where God tells us Himself what He did, what He thinks, and what He approves of.

The evos plays mind games to try to convince people that they are right about how God thinks and what He approves of and what honors Him.


299 posted on 04/28/2009 1:53:06 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: onewhowatches; betty boop; Alamo-Girl
Logic and reason are part of God's gift of intellect, the beginning of divinity that evolves us beyond common life and makes us in God's image.

So we are evolving into gods? Funny, God tells us in His word that HE created us in His image.

Or maybe a clear obvious reading of Scripture is too 18th century for you.

300 posted on 04/28/2009 1:55:30 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: onewhowatches; metmom
“Logic and reason are part of God's gift of intellect, the beginning of divinity that evolves us beyond common life and makes us in God's image.

In this day and age to be a creationist is to have rejected God's gift and thereby rejected God.”
[excerpt]
A man cannot reject that which makes him in the image of God.

The idea that intellect is the beginning of divinity is not scriptural. (and your whole premise of evolving into the image of God from common life, is its self directly contradictory to scripture)

God gave man the gift of physical strength and intelligence thereby enabling him to kill.

If a man exercises restraint and does not harm his fellow man, is he rejecting the gift and the giver because he does not do all that the giver has enabled him to do?

I think not!


Creationists do not reject God's gift as you have asserted.

It is however, the evolutionist who rejects God Himself by rejecting His Word.

“Meanwhile evolutionists have embraced the intellect and accepted God's gift.” [excerpt]
And all the while misusing that gift to deny the truth of God's Word.

“Even those who accept evolution and are atheists are closer to God's desire for mankind than creationists.” [excerpt]
Unless one accepts Christ as their Lord and Savior, they are lost.


Overall, I find your line of reasoning interesting (paraphrased):

Assertion: Logic and reason are part of God's gift of intellect, which makes us in God's image

Assertion: Creationists reject that gift as well as God.

Assertion: Evolutionists who accept that gift are closer to God desire for mankind than Creationists.

Inferred conclusions: Creationists are not made in God's image, are not going to heaven, and are inferior to Evolutionists.


Where have we seen that type of argument before?
301 posted on 04/28/2009 2:05:15 PM PDT by Fichori (The only bailout I'm interested in is the one where the entire Democrat party leaves the county)
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To: onewhowatches; metmom; Fichori; GodGunsGuts; betty boop

Logic and reason are part of God’s gift of intellect, the beginning of divinity that evolves us beyond common life and makes us in God’s image.

In this day and age to be a creationist is to have rejected God’s gift and thereby rejected God. Meanwhile evolutionists have embraced the intellect and accepted God’s gift. Even those who accept evolution and are atheists are closer to God’s desire for mankind than creationists.


Now there’s the knee-slapper award of the day!

I guess you simply ignored the part in Genesis about God making man just the way he is, in His image.

To the evolutionist, a mere great ape, with no soul, he is closer to God’s will by worshipping Darwin and ignoring God’s word.

More proof that in the liberal world, up is down and down is up.


303 posted on 04/28/2009 3:05:10 PM PDT by tpanther (The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing---Edmund Burke)
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To: onewhowatches; metmom; Fichori; GodGunsGuts; betty boop

Logic and reason are part of God’s gift of intellect, the beginning of divinity that evolves us beyond common life and makes us in God’s image.

In this day and age to be a creationist is to have rejected God’s gift and thereby rejected God. Meanwhile evolutionists have embraced the intellect and accepted God’s gift. Even those who accept evolution and are atheists are closer to God’s desire for mankind than creationists.


Now there’s the knee-slapper award of the day!

I guess you simply ignored the part in Genesis about God making man just the way he is, in His image.

To the evolutionist, a mere great ape, with no soul, he is closer to God’s will by worshipping Darwin and ignoring God’s word.

More proof that in the liberal world, up is down and down is up.


304 posted on 04/28/2009 3:05:13 PM PDT by tpanther (The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing---Edmund Burke)
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To: onewhowatches; Filo; metmom; spirited irish; Alamo-Girl; GodGunsGuts; hosepipe; DallasMike; ...
In this day and age to be a creationist is to have rejected God's gift and thereby rejected God. Meanwhile evolutionists have embraced the intellect and accepted God's gift. Even those who accept evolution and are atheists are closer to God's desire for mankind than creationists.

I find your argument specious and thoroughly unbiblical. God created man in His image; that is, as possessing reason and free will as the essential divine endowments that characterize essential human nature from the very beginning. Reason, therefore, is not somehow an acquisition that man appropriates via evolution. It is an essential human property that defines what human nature IS already, from the get-go.

And certainly man cannot, via reason or any other way, elevate himself to the status of godhood. God is not generating "other gods"; He is forming human souls — sons (and daughters) — with whom to relate and communicate, in the now and hereafter.

"Creationists" — better to say Christians in general — understand and readily accept all this. So, contrary to your belief, they have in no way "rejected" God's gift, thereby rejecting God. This is simply nonsense, onewhowatches.

Also it is nonsense to claim that atheists "are closer to God's desire for mankind than creationists." (As if you had some sort of privileged information about God's desires whereby you can divine who would be "close" or "not close" to Him.) Atheists simply deny God altogether. Is it reasonable to expect that God would favor those who deny Him? To deny God is to deny universal Truth, and the foundation of reason itself. That denied, what is left of reason — and what is left for reason to do?

Plus it is idiotic to insist that Christians reject intellect, reason. As C. S. Lewis put it, faith and reason harmonize quite well. Lewis repudiated the assertion that religious truth can be obtained only through a blind, fideistic leap. This is not faith at all. Christians in general are not given to "blind" leaps: They know very well what they're "leaping" for — and towards. And they know that this leap is eminently reasonable.

The entire Christian message is eminently reasonable — and God wants us to know that. Thus faith and reason are allies; they are not enemies divided by an infinite epistemological chasm as evidently you would lead us to believe.

God made men "rational"; He made the universe in such a way that it can be consistently and accurately reasoned about, and therefore understood, by human beings. And He bids us to "Go look!" and understand what He has wrought.

Funny thing is, given the immediately foregoing, it is Christians who are more open to the facts of reality, and who are more willing to adjust their beliefs as disconfirming evidence piles up, than are, say, (1) atheists; (2) Darwinists; (3) naturalists; (4) materialists; (5) physicalists; (6) determinists.

If you subscribe to the doctrine of the "causal closure of the physical," and/or the doctrine of naturalistic/mechanistic determinism, there is simply no way that you can rationally account for human freedom — or for such other things as man's consciousness, intellect, aesthetic experiences, and moral motions. And yet human beings clearly demonstrate these things. This is not rocket science: Simple common sense tells you all this.

The mechanist/determinist position holds that all reality is interlocked in an inexorable, regressive causal chain. But this supposition makes freedom impossible; for a truly free act is one that has no deterministic cause. Yet in a deterministic universe, there are no uncaused events. Ergo: Freedom is an illusion.

I do believe, onewhowatches, that you may be attempting to "recreate the universe" in your own image. But this is to construct a "second reality,"and ultimately all second realities are "unliveable" by human beings. The tension of living in between First and Second reality is ultimately impossible to bear. And eventually, it affects the mind in unnatural ways....

JMHO FWIW.

306 posted on 04/28/2009 4:32:50 PM PDT by betty boop (All truthful knowledge begins and ends in experience. — Albert Einstein)
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To: onewhowatches; metmom; betty boop; Alamo-Girl
In this day and age to be a creationist is to have rejected God's gift and thereby rejected God. Meanwhile evolutionists have embraced the intellect and accepted God's gift. Even those who accept evolution and are atheists are closer to God's desire for mankind than creationists.

In the beginning God CREATED heaven, and earth. (Genesis 1:1)

And he said: Let us make man to our image and likeness: and let him have dominion over the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the air, and the beasts, and the whole earth, and every creeping creature that moveth upon the earth. 27 And God CREATED man to his own image: to the image of God he CREATED him: male and female he CREATED them. (Genesis 1:26-27)

Now, had the word "evolved" been used instead of created, you would probably be correct; however, had the word evolved been used I doubt we would be discussing this.

Darwinists have long embraced atheism to justify their positions and that is certainly their prerogative, but it is an insult to the intelligence of even the most ignorant among them to claim any sort of Divine Guidance for their positions.

309 posted on 04/28/2009 5:23:15 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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