Replies

WOSG: ”I am being honest. you are being self-deluded if you think Obama’s socialist is merely ‘more of the same’. It’s a whole new leftwing ballgame.”

Sickoflibs: “It was you so called conservatives that broke the piggy bank ...”

As Reagan would say: There you go again.

Yes, there was fiscal irresponsibility going on prior to Obama in the Bush era. But you continue to blame conservatives who OPPOSED big spending AT THE TIME, instead of blaming the Congressional RINOs and Dems who actually passed the big spending.

You keep repeating the same phony strawman arguments, devoid of content and contrary to the facts that went on. You continue to make claims without precise quotes (because three are none to support your claims). So I will inject facts to make it clear who did right and who did wrong in the Bush era...

- The guilty parties included Bush administration and RINOs and Democrats in Congress who passed the spending bills that
- It did NOT include the conservatives, like Rush and Levin and others, who protested AGAINST those bills that busted the budget or violated conservative principles
- Conservative Republicans, conservative opinion makers and conservative think tanks openly and publicly broke with Bush on spending and immigration

Now look at the timeline on for example the 2002 Daschle Farm bill:
- 2002: CONSERVATIVES LAMENT THE SPENDING SPREE BILLS FROM THE DASCHLE SENATE, CRITICIZING BOTH DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS IN CONGRESS - Here is NRO, openly breaking with Bush on big spending, Steven Moore using hte ‘drunken sailor’ analogy even then:
http://www.nationalreview.com/moore/moore051702.asp
“The spending spree has worsened now that Tom Daschle is running the Senate and that prince of pork, Robert C. Byrd, is ruling the appropriations process. But one only need look at the vote on the Farm Bill — a bill that will distribute million-dollar welfare checks to America’s wealthiest farm businesses — to see that the pro-spending virus endemic in the Democratic party has spread to the GOP.

I’ve covered federal budget issues for nearly two decades. If the Farm Bill wasn’t the most fiscally rancid legislation I have seen, it’s certainly in the top three.”

- Early 2002 - BUSH WANTED TO DEFER ON FARM BILL
Ag Secretary Veneman opposes the Farm bill in Congress, suggested deferring it.
“September 19: Secretary of Agriculture Ann Veneman criticizes traditional farm policy, calls for a shift from commodity subsidies to conservation measures”
- SEN GRASSLEY WANTED TO REIN IN THE SUBSIDY LEVELS
“Rein in ag subsidies, Grassley says The Iowa senator, directly challenging Democrats on the mired farm bill, wants it amended to lower the annual cap in a bid to distribute funds more evenly., Omaha World Herald (Nebraska), January 17, 2002, Thursday, IOWA EDITION, Pg. 1B”
- THE DASCHLE FARM BILL WAS SAVED BY SUPPORT FROM LIBERAL DEMOCRATS - GOVT MONEY FOR ... EGGPLANTS!
“The emergence of the Eggplant Caucus, so named for a major New Jersey crop, was a major factor in the passage of the bill.

Sen. Patrick Leahy (D-VT) saw the opportunity for what he considered to be a more fair and equitable farm bill, and sought to unite over 20 senators from states with less powerful farming interests in support of subsidies for specialty crops and conservation. Active members of the Eggplant Caucus included:

* Sen. Hillary Clinton (D-NY)
* Sen. Charles E. Schumer (D-NY)
* Sen. Harry Reid (D-NV)”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farm_Security_and_Rural_Investment_Act_of_2002

- may 2002 DASCHLE PASSED THE FARM BILL -ONE THIRD OF REPUBLICANS, THE TRUE FISCAL CONSERVATIVES, VOTE AGAINST IT; LOG ROLLING BIG SPENDERS IN BOTH PARTIES VOTE FOR IT

- CONSERVATIVE GROUP HERITAGE FOUNDATION URGES VETO OF BIG SPENDING BY DASCHLE / HASTERT CONGRESS
http://www.heritage.org/research/budget/bg1566.cfm

- may 2002 LIMBAUGH CRITICIZES DASCHLE FARM BILL
- RIGHT AFTER THE FARM BILL, DEMOCRATS DEMANDED MORE MONEY, RIGHT AFTER THE MONEY WAS ALLOCATED, THEY BLAMED BUSH FOR NOT SPENDING ENOUGH!!!
- Daschle’s budget busting Farm Bill.
http://sibbyonline.blogs.com/sibbyonline/2004/07/the_farm_bill.html
“In a statement this week, the Bush Administration said that they would not support providing any additional funds for agriculture – including natural disasters such as droughts and floods – for this year or any year until the new farm bill expires in 2007. The Administration said any natural disaster funding should come from the newly-passed farm bill.

“Each day that passes without significant rain in South Dakota means more farmers and ranchers are facing economic disaster. And when farm income declines, our communities lose business and face economic ruin. For this Administration to say that drought assistance must come from farm commodity program spending is like saying that funding to fight the war on terrorism should come from existing Defense Department funding or that money to fight forest fires raging in the western United States should come from existing Forest Service budgets. Emergencies and disasters, by their very definition, are unplanned and therefore require special funding,” Johnson said.”

- 2004 - DEMOCRATS ACCUSE BUSH OF NOT SPENDING ENOUGH: “In 2004 the Democrats continue to play politics with the Farm Bill. Johnson takes credit for funding the Farm Bill provides to Internet providers (not exactly plow jocks), as Daschle blames Bush and Thune for the lack of assistance the drought stricken ranchers are in great need of. “

- THE BEAT GOES ON - PELOSI PUSHING MORE SUBSIDIES
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2007/07/26/MNG9AR6V6S1.DTL&type=printable

... and so it goes.

Time and time again, we saw the same script: Bush compromised with Democrats on big-spending bills, the Democrats ‘took credit’ for the big spending benefits, then blasted Bush for NOT SPENDING ENOUGH, at the same time hypocritically lamenting the deficits and blaming Bush for that too. This happened on NCLB (Dems saying it ‘wasnt fully funded’ even while Dept of Ed spending doubled) on Medicare (Dems calling for $1 trillion in more spending on drug benefit) on farm bill (Dems busted it even more in 2007) on SCHIP (Dems passed a TRIPLING OF SPENDING on this in January, vetoed by Bush in 2007 but signed by Obama in Jan).

In the end, Bush’s triangulation was a political failure that was also fiscally irresponsible. Blame Rove, Bush and big-spending RINOs for that. Blame also the hypocritical Democrats for massive spending then turning around and demanding MORE, pretending falsely that Bush was somehow a budget miser.

Blaming conservatives for this is opposite of the truth. Conservatives opposed Bush and the big-spenders at the time. It is leaving the guilty off scot free (Democrats like Daschle and Robert Byrd, RINOs like Snowe, Specter, bigspending Repubs like Ted Stevens, etc. ) while accusing the innocent (conservatives talk show hosts, ‘conservatives’ in general) etc. of being complicit in something they OPPOSED at the time.

Many conservative were properly supportive of Bush for forthrightly fighting the Global War on Terror. They (and we all) have nothing to apologize for on that score. Supporting a President for doing many things right is not a bad thing. What conservatives can be proud of is the fact that they were not lemmings and (contrary to your attempt to rewrite history) forthrightly opposed Bush when he deviated from conservative policies, on spending, on immigration, on dubai ports, on stimulus.

“Nothing to stand on?” - That’s a rather silly comment. So long as you are speaking truth and making sensible proposals, you are on solid ground. Like this GOP alternative - very good and very solid:
http://www.heritage.org/Research/Budget/wm2377.cfm