Interview: Joe Frazier still simmering over Ali (quotes discuss religion, too)

AP ^ | April 10, 2009 | DAVE SKRETTA

[ConservativeStatement]

NEW YORK — Muhammad Ali described his third and final fight with Joe Frazier as "death, closest thing to dyin' that I know of."

Frazier recalls their brutal matchup outside Manila as something much less grandiose.

"We just did our job," he said.

The two great heavyweights always have been the ying and yang of boxing. Why should things change nearly 35 years later?

[Ticonderoga34]

Joe shut him up for awhile if memory serve me. He broke Clays jaw (they wired it shut) and had him eating pudding for about a month.

I don't want to be anal but that was Ken Norton who broke Clay's jaw. But Frazier beat the crap out of Clay at their first and third fight. Clay was never the same fighter after the Manila fight.

Another interesting fact is that Clay was suppose to be the champion of the black race while Frazier was suppose to be "the Uncle Tom" yet Clay had white men in his corner, like Angelo Dundee while Frazier had black men in his corner.

[bobby.223]

...c’mon gorilla, we in manila”

[Snurple]

Was that the actual quote ?

[frankenMonkey]

"...ying and yang..."

Note to AP: Please, please, please - see if you can find someone, anyone, who has some college edumacation!

[skeeter]

Ali’s skill in the ring wasn’t enough to make up for his shortcomings as an American and a human being.

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

***Joe shut him up for awhile if memory serve me. He broke Clays jaw (they wired it shut) and had him eating pudding for about a month.****

Isn’t that the punch that also permanently scrambled Ali’s brains?

[sfvgto]

I used to like how Ali gave other boxers nicknames based on the shape of their head.....he called Larry Holmes “the peanut” and he called Ernie Shavers “the Acorn”......

[mjp]

Now, boxing has become a niche sport followed mostly by the devoted.

I saw a Tyson fight many years ago in Vegas. All the fights that night were so obviously fixed that I have never watched one since.

[tflabo]

I remember seeing a TV clip when Ali had just finished a fight he won. Immediately Howard Cosell jumped into the ring with microphone and a panting Ali. Cosell called Joe Frazier on the phone, said a few words to stir the pot and then gave the phone to Ali who said, “ Ah Joe, it’s just Howard agitatin’ again”.

[haroldeveryman]

That was Ken Norton that broke Ali’s jaw. Ali had some trouble with fighters with good speed who were good in close (Frazier, Norton, Bonavena) and deny him punching room. But Foreman was a big strong counter puncher and ate fighters like that alive (He Ko’d Frazier and Norton in 2 and Frazier again in 5.

But Foreman was easy for Clay. He was way too slow to stay with him and always had poor endurance.

[Terry Mross]

I’ve always believed Joe won all three bouts.

[Terry Mross]

I like Norton a lot more than Ali. I also think Ron Lyle beat Ali. He knocked Ali down a few times then they stopped the fight and gave it to Ali.

[ThermoNuclearWarrior]

Muhammad Ali was one of the best heavyweights of all time but he's also the most overrated athlete of all time.

Boxing will never be as popular as it once was because all the big fights are on pay-per-view and pay channels. If they still had the biggest fights for free on network TV it would be much more popular than it is now. They also need to stop charging $50-$60 for each pay-per-view card. I watch all boxing and MMA pay-per-views for free with Sopcast.

[ThermoNuclearWarrior]

How could Frazier have he won the third fight when Eddie Futch stopped the fight between the 14th. and 15th. round?

[Mr. Mojo]

I’ve always believed Joe won all three bouts.

The outcome of the third fight isn't a matter of belief or opinion -- Frazier quit on his stool after the 14th round from exhaustion, and Ali was battering him at will at the time of the stoppage. As I mentioned earlier, probably the best heavyweight championship fight ever.

The second fight was a very boring affair with Ali winning easily on points -- no controversy. Frazier had a particularly bad outing -- he just wasn't on his game.

Frazier beat Ali only in the first fight, and that was a very close contest.

I was rooting like crazy for Frazier to knock Ali's head off in all three contests, but alas it just wasn't to be. The best moments Frazier had against Ali were the famous knockdown (left hook) in the 15th round of the first fight and the middle round (7th through 12th) pounding he administered the third fight.

[Robwin]

Ali's racism is not solely dependent on what he did with that plastic monkey. He joined the Nation of Islam, a church which taught blacks were the original human race and whites were "devils" created by this scientist guy through selective breeding (no, seriously. The closest thing we have today to the then Nation of Islam, which has since softened its doctrines, is the Louis Farrakhan version of Islam, mother ship and all. Ali was also a member of the NOI's own security force, the Fruits of Islam (curious choice of name, that).

Ali is a racist, pure and simple, but the old Liberal double standard, as always, rules. Only whites are guilty of racism.

[Mr. Mojo]

Frazier quit on his stool after the 14th round from exhaustion

I shouldn't have said he quit, but he was a clearly beaten man. All the snap to his punches was gone, and his defense was non-existent. His trainer Eddie Futch did the right thing.

What's interesting is that while this was going on in Frazier's corner, Ali was pleading with his own trainer (Angelo Dundee) to stop the fight because he was exhausted. Dundee refused, and Ali then told him that he would refuse to come out of his corner for the 15th if Dundee didn't stop it. But Frazier's corner quit first, and Ali was therefore declared the winner. An incredible episode.

If it went to the scorecards after 14 rounds, I'd probably have scored the fight even.

[bobby.223]

those exact words were just part of a long ali ramble before the fight. the ‘real’ fight was said to have been between belinda ali and the champ before the HCF as she caught ali with his on the side babe,(soon to be his 3rd wife)veronica. belinda showed up, let ali have it, then jumped right back on a jet to return to America.

[bobby.223]

I don’t remember lyle knocking ali down in their fight once, let alone twice. are we thinking of the same fight? I do not believe ali was ever knocked down twice in any of his fights and I think it happened only 4 or 5 times total in his career.

[Terry Mross]

See above. Ali was whipped. Frazier quit first. If he hadn’t, Ali would have.