Putting down the mutiny

Waterbury Republican-American ^ | April 8, 2009 | Editorial

[Graybeard58]

Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich is warning Republicans and Democrats of a possible third-party mutiny in 2012 because of all the socialism being advanced by the White House and Congress.

Who's he kidding? The major political parties have a death grip on the electoral process, but for insurance, Sen. Dick Durbin, D-Ill., and Rep. John Larson, D-1st District (Ct), have submitted bills to create a full-blown, taxpayer-funded, campaign-finance machine created for and controlled by the incumbents.

Their proposals in principle are identical to the one Connecticut lawmakers enacted that has made it toughest on third-party candidates to qualify for campaign grants.

So there will be no mutiny because incumbents refuse to share their bounty.

[so_real]

You are advocating the Marxist strategy of making things worse so they make it better.

Just the opposite, in my opinion. Dialectical materialism (the Marxist strategy you refer to) would require that I openly support the corrupted Republican party -- inject further corruption into it where possible -- expecting that, once it gets bad enough, an opposing force will emerge to correct it.

That philosophy, to me, sounds more like this habit we seem to have of voting Republican because it "is the lesser of two evils". The party is broken and getting worse each election cycle. Continuing to support the Republican party regardless with votes and dollars is the role of an "enabler". The enabler furthers the corruption process -- and some day the party may break badly enough to warrant repair. This parallels exactly the process described by dialetical materialism.

The down side is (as Marx and Hegel describe) when a confrontation between the thesis and antithesis is forced, one will overthrow the other. There is no guarantee your side wins -- only that one side will be squashed.

I advocate not playing that game. The odds of being squashed are too great. So, instead of playing Marxist and supporting a corrupt party to make it worse, I advocate abandoning the party. You say, don't burn the house down because you don't like the paint job in the living room. I say, move out and find a house you like. If the landlord wants you back, he'll repaint the living room on his own.

[uncitizen]

I won’t respond to your reply beyond that because there are too many personal attacks in it and i don’t care what you think of me or my opinions.

[uncitizen]

Obama won, and that far-left liberal and his nonsense was supported by over 60 million people. Declaring the GOP a lost cause while ignoring this salient point is like blaming the ship’s cook for a sinking ship.

What makes you think i was ignoring BO's Presidency? Why do you think i said "we're falling fast"?

[uncitizen]

Imagine a new conservative party that could get a dozen or so House seats and 2-3 in the Senate. Certainly not enough to legislate independently, but more than enough to exert pressure on the Republicans to toe the line, and the party will grow and grow from there.

that's how it could end up if the movement starts now.

[so_real]

Not attempting to disparage anyone's intent or patriotism.

I appreciate that. As for the rest ... tea parties are popping up all over the nation. I'll be attending one myself on tax day. Hope you are as well. Citizens are recognizing the socialistic and communistic tendencies of the liberal party. They are heeding the call to action. Would this be the case if McCain had been elected? If played out well, the threat of Obamanation may be exactly the kick Conservatism in America needs. In that case, yes, I'd say those that voted solely on principle were successful. History, however, is written by the victors. So we'll have to see how it plays out before the assertion can be supported.

[carmody]

Republicans have a serious branding problem. And 55 million was not enough to win in 2008 and it won’t be in 2012. Sarah Palin was the only reason McCain came close to 55 million voters. And the difference between Arlen Specter and Sarah Palin is like the difference between hot and cold. How could those two people occupy the same party? The problem is, the Specters and McCains aren’t planning to give up anything to the Palins of the party.

Democrats are all on the same page. The Republican party big tent is so crowded that they are literally pushing their audience out from under the tent ... and throwing their best performers out with them. (Rush Limbaugh - OUT! Megan McCain - IN! Huh?)

Democrat Congresspeople go to CUBA and lavish PRAISE on the COMMUNIST dictator and you don’t here a PEEP of condemnation from ANYONE in their party - not even their President.

Rush Limbaugh says he hopes Obama’s policies fail and the Republicans are tripping all over themselves to throw Rush under a bus.

If the Republicans have to deal with a 3rd party they only have themselves to blame. I’ve held my nose for Dole, Specter, and McCain. I’m not holding my nose any more. If they can’t get their act together it’s not my fault - it’s theirs.

[so_real]

(Rush Limbaugh - OUT! Megan McCain - IN! Huh?)

Thanks for the chuckle! My sentiments exactly.

[Graybeard58]

You said a lot in #39 and I didn't find anything in it to disagree with.

[GBA]

I think that there are a lot of us. Now that we've actually seen exactly how bad things can get, it's not an unknown to be afraid of any more and a republican who says, "vote for me, I'm not as bad as the other guy" isn't good enough.

I've been voting like that for years now and we still had Clinton, almost had Gore and Kerry and now we've got obama and an all demonrat congress. No wonder voter turnouts are so low or that some people opt out altogether. And no wonder someone like Reagan got votes from all sides, so many that they were called Reagan democrats. They're still out there wishing they had someone to vote for.

There is a hunger among voters waiting to be addressed and both the demonrats and the republicans should be worried.

[Kackikat]

“I think the country is ready to throw ALL the bums out.”

Me included, and when can we start...

Going on sabbatical, so may be some time before I comment again after tonight...have a great Easter.

[Kackikat]

Noone wants to get caught in the “transnational crap” that KOH wants to bring in, if the appointment to State Dept by Zero is approved.

[Kackikat]

Noone wants to get caught in the “transnational crap” that KOH wants to bring in, if the appointment to State Dept by Zero is approved.

[dusttoyou]

Definately will be at the Alamo Tea Party with GB!!!!

[WOSG]

First, you seem overfocussed on the party, as if the most pressing matter to the nation is giving some GOP honchos an a**-kicking. Maybe they deserve that ... but there is something far more important than a party to worry about - the country. The “Marxist strategy” is one of letting the country go to the dogs by letting the Democrats win all the elections, run up supermajorities, and run things without any constraints at all; it is dumb as rocks. you get stuff like gay marriage (as in VT), DC voting scheme (unconstituional), fairness doctrine, unions ending secret ballots, massive leftwing corruption and indoctrination funding etc.

You keep thinking that I am trying to save the party - FAR FROM IT. I AM TRYING TO SAVE THE COUNTRY. The burning house analogy - the House is AMERICA. You CANNOT MOVE HOUSE - if you BURN DOWN THE HOUSE by letting the Democrats destroy America you are hosed FOREVER.

“The party is broken and getting worse each election cycle.”

Your problem is that you are talking about it like its a washing machine. The party is nothing of the sort. You bash the Republicans (falsely) as if it is some outside alien group. The party is an organization made up of people - JUST LIKE US. You ARE the Republican party.

The Republican party is a less corrupt more conservative and has greater potential for being what YOU want it to be, now more than ever. Why? It’s like helping a person when they are down; or buying an unloved stock ... when they return to glory they will repay you. Look at it this way - NAME YOUR TOP 5 AGENDA ITEMS THAT YOU WANT A MAJORITY US PARTY TO ADVOCATE.

There is zero chance if you are conservative that it would intersect with the Democrats. There is almost 100% chance that there are many Republican elected officials and groups who adhere to some of those 5 points. And if you have a viewpoint that is so extreme that a majority-seeking party would never advocate it ... then consider that your best avenue is not to go 3rd party, but to do the patient work of convincing more voters to agree with you.

In the end, as I said, the GOP is a human organization made up of fallible fellow patriots trying to do whats best for America.

“That philosophy, to me, sounds more like this habit we seem to have of voting Republican because it “is the lesser of two evils”. “

I have never voted for a Republican who was evil, and neither should you. Yet all life is a matter of choices. the choice to work to make the GOP as good as possible is a choice that could save America in this current environment where Pelosi Reid and Obama want a CO2 cap-and-tax scheme, socialized medicine, amnesty, higher taxes and $16 trillion in spending in 4 years. Any positive conservaive agenda is pipedream until we regain a majority, but the question is: Would it be worthwhile to stop this liberal socialist agenda?

.. the easy-way-out choice to go 3rd party is a choice that abdicates influence in politics and hands over control of the country to the liberals. It is a sane way to vote only if you get your kicks out of handing loaded guns to your enemies.

[WOSG]

“What makes you think i was ignoring BO’s Presidency? “

This - you made an untrue and unserious statement earlier in the thread: “The GOP and the RATS are one and the same. They’re just pretending they have differences.”

That’s a nonsensical comment in this age of Obama. every day we get more of Obama’s socialism, tax-and-spend-and-regulate schemes, massive deficit spending, massive subsidies of liberal social engineering, eco-extremism, anti-traditionalism, pro-abortion extremism, pander-to-lesbian-gays-muslims-Europeans while dissing traditional Christian white America. I dont know of a single Republican who is anywhere close to this leftist radical Democrat.

To me the above performance by Obama is not the most disturbing thing. The most disturbing thing is that he’s still got a good approval rating despite all this. There still are many people who buy into all of this stuff.

There are now a majority of Democrats in the Senate and 95% of them are worse than even the worst RINO Senator. Likewise, 98% of House Democrats are worse than every single Republican.

[uncitizen]

If you think my statements are “untrue and unserious” then just ignore me. I won’t notice.

[WOSG]

Republicans have a serious branding problem.

Yes they do.

Sarah Palin was the only reason McCain came close to 55 million voters. - So you say.... but why is Palin of any concern of yours? SHE IS A REPUBLICAN AND YOU ARE REJECTING THE PARTY. If you want to support Palin, you need to stay in the GOP. The idea that Palin or Jindhal would leave the GOP is naive foolishness.

And the difference between Arlen Specter and Sarah Palin is like the difference between hot and cold.

Yes, well known that we have conservatives and RINOs in the party, but what's your point? I supported Toomey in 2004 against Specter, and want him primary'd. But if you are goign to turn your back on Republicans, you really have no cause to say who should or shouldnt be there, including RINO types.

"How could those two people occupy the same party?" The problem is, the Specters and McCains aren’t planning to give up anything to the Palins of the party.

If you want the party to be OUR party again, it's simple (but hard) - REPLACE THEM IN THE PRIMARY.

Democrats are all on the same page. - All Drinking the the koolaid....

The Republican party big tent is so crowded that they are literally pushing their audience out from under the tent ... and throwing their best performers out with them. (Rush Limbaugh - OUT! Megan McCain - IN! Huh?)

Huh indeed? I dont a single person who'd assert that Megan McCain is 'in' and Rush is 'out'. Neither is elected but Rush has never had higher ratings than now. Megan's 15 minute buzzer is about to go off... And again, why should a sideshow like that be of any concern? Every single member of the GOP House voted NO on the trillion dollar boondoggle 'stimulus'.

Democrat Congresspeople go to CUBA and lavish PRAISE on the COMMUNIST dictator and you don’t here a PEEP of condemnation from ANYONE in their party - not even their President.

of course not, the fish is rotting from the head on that front, as obama praised Brazil's socialist leader, apologized for America on a number of issues, pandering to muslims, and showed weakness to RPNK... oh, and they want to end the Cuba embargo. 8 years of Bush veto threats kept that off the table, but not now.

Rush Limbaugh says he hopes Obama’s policies fail and the Republicans are tripping all over themselves to throw Rush under a bus.

The Dems have used Rush's taken-out-of-context statements to drive wedges. But Jindhal defended Rush and the idea that we can. will and should oppose Obama's policies when he's wrong.

If the Republicans have to deal with a 3rd party they only have themselves to blame.

That's not the question. You are like a neglected housewife thrying the dishes around to get attention. Nice venting, but does it actually accomplish anything? You main goal in voting ... is to send a message to the party ... or figure out what is best for the country? Kicking RINOs out in primaries will help - BUT THAT REQUIRES VOTING FOR CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICANS. And letting conservative Republicans win primaries only to lose in the fall is futility as well. So the commitment need to be to support them in both.

I’ve held my nose for Dole, Specter, and McCain. ... I feel your pain.

If you are in PA, you can vote for Toomey in the GOP primary end Specter's career. Vote 3rd party and you dont have the chance to primary Specter.

[oyez]

A few third party legislators, working smartly and as a team could weld a lot of power.

[WOSG]

Seems to me the Socialist/Democrats are stacking the deck with strategic moves intended to thwart the electoral process in America for many an election cycle to come. Their arrogance and disrespect for the First Law of our land, the Constitution allows them to proceed without remorse. Their arrogance and disrespect for the people of this land allows them to proceed without remorse. Their legislations are dictates, and their rhetoric is condescension. There is no negotiating with tyranny.

Good points. It's a further point worth pondering that - OBAMA AND CREW WILL DO WHATEVER THEY CAN GET AWAY WITH.

That means that whatever means are used to clip his wings - GOP Congress, bad poll numbers, public protests (eg Tea parties), etc - it will impact his agenda implementation. This is a guy so thin-skinned he goes after Rush, yet so powerful he's decided to brazenly break campaign promises.

They want to stack the deck to make our democracy and irrelevency.

[WOSG]

Fallacies “Republicans and Democrats are one and the same” are precisely the instructive folly that deserve refutation on a forum like this.

We have proof on an hourly basis from the news articles on how manifestly and absurdly false that is. The chasm between the 2 parties is wider than ever, as the Democrats drive America off a socialist left-liberal cliff.

Breezy cynicism is easy. Far harder is doing the work of figuring out what is REALLY going on.

Not a single person here advocating giving up on the GOP and going third party has adequately describe what *specific political objectives would be acheived* by such a move.

There is a reason. This is superficial venting and non-serious thinking.