Quantum Setback For Warp Drives [back to the drawing board]

Slashdot ^ | 4/3/9 | kdawson

[Clint Williams]

KentuckyFC writes

"Warp drives were generally considered impossible by mainstream scientists until 1994 when the physicist Michael Alcubierre worked out how to build a faster-than-light drive using the principles of general relativity. His thinking was that while relativity prevents faster-than-light travel relative to the fabric of spacetime, it places no restriction on the speed at which regions of spacetime may move relative to each other. So a small bubble of spacetime containing a spacecraft could travel faster than the speed of light, at least in principle. But one unanswered question was what happens to the bubble when quantum mechanics is taken into account. Now, a team of physicists have worked it out, and it's bad news: the bubble becomes unstable at superluminal speeds, making warp drives impossible (probably)."

[Dead Corpse]

How about harmonic areas of stability? Chaotic systems can collapse into order if the conditions are set correctly. Think of it as a kind of “sonic boom” region with areas of stability between.

[Sherman Logan]

I’m not trying to say they exist. I’m saying that physicists have found a number of ways they CAN exist when using the physics of general relativity. Or, putting it another way, it’s those who say they cannot exist who are ignoring the known physics.

The universe is probably a much stranger place than we presently realize, and we now know it is a much odder place than we thought 100 or even 25 years ago.

Don’t assume that because something is really strange it cannot for that reason exist.

[Dallas59]

While theoretically and technically television may be feasible, commercially and financially I consider it an impossibility, a development of which we need waste little time dreaming.

- Lee DeForest, American radio pioneer, 1926.

Radio has no future.

- Lord Kelvin, British mathematician and physicist.

This `telephone' has too many shortcomings to be seriously considered as a practical form of communication. The device is inherently of no value to us.

- Western Union internal memo, 1878

Well informed people know it is impossible to transmit the voice over wires and that were it possible to do so, the thing would be of no practical value.

- Editorial in the Boston Post, 1865

Airplanes are interesting toys but of no military value.

- Marshal Ferdinand Foch, French military strategist and World War I commander.

It is an idle dream to imagine that automobiles will take the place of railways in the long distance movement of passengers.

- American Railroad Congress, 1913

Men might as well project a voyage to the Moon as attempt to employ steam navigation against the stormy North Atlantic Ocean.

- Dr. Dionysus Lardner (1793-1859)

Professor of Natural Philosophy and Astronomy

There is no reason for any individual to have a computer in their home.

- Ken Olson, President of Digital Corporation, 1977

The Internet will catastrophically collapse in 1996.’ - Robert Metcalfe, internet inventor

Computers in the future may weigh no more than 1.5 tons.

- Popular Mechanics, 1949

We have reached the limits of what is possible with computers.

- John Von Neumann, 1949

I think there is a world market for maybe five computers.

- Thomas J. Watson Snr., IBM Chairman, 1943

There is no hope for the fanciful idea of reaching the Moon because of insurmountable barriers to escaping the Earth's gravity.

- Dr. Forest Ray Moulton, University of Chicago astronomer, 1932.

To place a man in a multi-stage rocket and project him into the controlling gravitational field of the moon where the passengers can make scientific observations, perhaps land alive, and then return to earth--all that constitutes a wild dream worthy of Jules Verne. I am bold enough to say that such a man-made voyage will never occur regardless of all future advances.

- Lee DeForest, American radio pioneer, 1926.

‘The abdomen, the chest and the brain will forever be shut from the intrusion of the wise and humane surgeon.’

- Sir John Eric Ericson, Surgeon to Queen Victoria, 1873

Louis Pasteur’s theory of germs is a ridiculous fiction. - Pierre Pachet

Professor Physiology, Toulouse, 1872

The abolishment of pain in surgery is a chimera. It is absurd to go on seeking it... Knife and pain are two words in surgery that must forever be associated in the consciousness of the patient.

- Dr. Alfred Velpeau (1839), French surgeon

There is growing evidence that smoking has pharmacological effects that are of real value to smokers.

- President of Philip Morris, Inc., 1962

...any one who expects a source of power from the transformation of these atoms is talking moonshine...

- Ernest Rutherford (1933)

There is no likelihood man can ever tap the power of the atom. The glib supposition of utilizing atomic energy when our coal has run out is a completely unscientific Utopian dream, a childish bug-a-boo. Nature has introduced a few fool-proof devices into the great majority of elements that constitute the bulk of the world, and they have no energy to give up in the process of disintegration.

- Robert A. Millikan (1863-1953) speech to the Chemists' Club (New York)

There is not the slightest indication that [nuclear energy] will ever be obtainable. It would mean that the atom would have to be shattered at will.

- Albert Einstein, 1932.

All the waste in a year from a nuclear power plant can be stored under a desk.

- Ronald Reagan, 1980

‘With regard to the electric light, much has been said for and against it, but I think I may say without contradiction that when the Paris Exhibition closes, electric light will close with it, and no more will be heard of it.’

- Erasmus Wilson Oxford University professor, 1878

I am tired of all this thing called science.... We have spent millions in that sort of thing for the last few years, and it is time it should be stopped. - Simon Cameron,

U.S. Senator from Pennsylvania, 1861 demanding the funding of the Smithsonian Institution be cut off

The so-called theories of Einstein are merely the ravings of a mind polluted with liberal, democratic nonsense which is utterly unacceptable to German men of science.

- Dr. Walter Gross, 1940

There is a young madman proposing to light the streets of London - with what do you suppose - with smoke!

- Sir Walter Scott (1771-1832) On a proposal to light cities with gaslight



The machine gun is a much overrated weapon; two per battalion is more than sufficient.

- General Douglas Haig, 1915

X-rays are a hoax.

- Lord Kelvin, ca. 1900

Your cigarettes will never become popular.

- F. G. Alton, 1870

cigar maker, turning down Mr. John Player

[Smokin' Joe]

The current admin reminds me of Spaceballs.

Yep. The Farce is with us....(I think we're getting 'schwartzed', too.)

[arfan]

The faster than light “bubble” burst before it was formed...

[B-Chan]

Ummm..., yeah..., if one believes in science fiction physics... LOL...

"It is argued that, if the laws of physics permit an advanced civilization to create and maintain a wormhole in space for interstellar travel, then that wormhole can be converted into a time machine with which causality might be violatable. Whether wormholes can be created and maintained entails deep, ill-understood issues about cosmic censorship, quantum gravity, and quantum field theory, including the question of whether field theory enforces an averaged version of the weak energy condition."
-- "Wormholes, Time Machines, and the Weak Energy Condition", Michael S. Morris, Kip S. Thorne, and Ulvi Yurtsever, Department of Theoretical Astrophysics, California Institute of Technology, Pasadena, in Physical Review, 61, 13, September 1988, pp. 1446 - 1449

Dr. Kip Thorne is probably the world's leading expert on gravitation. He literally wrote the book on that subject. Do you think he believes in "science fiction physics"?

[cripplecreek]

The universe is probably a much stranger place than we presently realize, and we now know it is a much odder place than we thought 100 or even 25 years ago.

I believe it wasn't until the 1930s that we realized the the universe was larger than our own galaxy.

[6SJ7]

Photon teleportation was achieved almost 10 years ago. Not practical, but it shows at some level, every point in the universe is connected to every other point.

Wherever you go, there you are.

[Star Traveler]

You said — “Don’t assume that because something is really strange it cannot for that reason exist.”

—

Oh, I don’t. I believe and I have evidence foe the fact that the future can be predicted with 100% accuracy and without fail — in the case of the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. I also say and state, according to what God’s own Word says (no matter how strange it sounds) that this very same God created all that there is, and he existed outside of such created things and outside of time itself, before such things were created, entirely “self-existent” and without causality.

I also state that this very same God doesn’t need wormholes or warp drive to be everywhere in the universe at the same time, in all places, and still exists outside of this space-time universe, in addition to that.

So, no..., I don’t think because something sounds strange that it cannot exist. I know God exists and He sounds a lot stranger than what you’re saying here... LOL...

BUT, I also know that simply because God is “this strange” — it doesn’t mean that mankind has the ability or the knowledge (or ever will) to do the same strange things that God *only* can do...

[Sherman Logan]

Steven Hawking also discusses possible ways for wormholes to form. He’s our greatest living physicist, on a level with Einstein and Newton.

[Sherman Logan]

So you know that God didn’t create wormholes, or a universe that would allow them to form or be generated, because you have decided He doesn’t need them.

Isn’t it a tad arrogant for a human to decide what God can and will do? Can we even conceive of the motives for his actions? I think I stand on solid Biblical ground when I say we cannot. God is and always will be unknowable to humans.

[Mr. K]

I think thats how the UFO’s travel here.

Bob Lazaar, who claims to have worked at area 51, explained it works exactly like this

You dont travel through space so much as you warp space to bring your destination closer like pulling a portion of a ballon

(I really believe this, not kidding!)

[dangerdoc]

Did they try reversing the polarity?

Mayby their phase inverter was out of allignment.

I guess we are left with the improbability drive and a cup of warm tea.

[Mr. K]

I think thats how the UFO’s travel here.

Bob Lazaar, who claims to have worked at area 51, explained it works exactly like this

You dont travel through space so much as you warp space to bring your destination closer like pulling a portion of a ballon

(I really believe this, not kidding!)

[Hegewisch Dupa]

But if you can get to it, it IS part of this universe in some way. True multi-verse universes can’t be accessed from one another.

[Pilsner]

Radio has no future. - Lord Kelvin, British mathematician and physicist.

Lord Kelvin tried very hard to discredit Marconi, calling him an out and out conman. Radio waves, declared Lord Kelvin, travel like light waves, so you cannot communicate over the horizon with a radio anymore than you can communicate over the horizon with a signal lamp.

[dangerdoc]

Maybe they got here with a triple post drive.

[Star Traveler]

You said — Do you think he believes in “science fiction physics”?

—

From what I’ve seen of some scientist and what they say about the so-called theory of evolution, I would say that it’s entirely possible that many scientists believe in science fiction, instead of the reality of the universe as given to us by the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and what He tells us does truly exist and that He, Himself, truly exists.

So, yes..., many scientist are science fiction writers more than anything else. Maybe not all of them (certainly not) but a goodly portion of them for sure.

Besides that, there are quite enough scientists who would disagree with him, anyway... And from what I’ve seen, this so-called “science” which pretends to have some knowledge at various times in its history of endeavors, has been found to be constantly changing its positions as to what this “reality” really is... anyway, never making up its mind as to what is real and what is not — from decade to decade. :-)

I don’t depend upon any scientist to tell me what the reality of the universe is. I find God a lot more dependable than they are...

They can keep building bridges and planes and cars and stuff, as that’s about all they are good for, in the long run (plain and simple operational science, things which can be tested on a day-to-day basis and has elements of *reality* embedded in what it says...).

[Brett66]

Even if the Alcubierre warp drive was possible, it was functionally impossible, it would require the energy of a galaxy to function.

Physical possibility is one thing, engineering possibility is something entirely different.

That being said, I think this is a problem that sparks the human imagination and we could find a solution to this eventually, but I don’t think it will resemble anything we can think of to this point.