Sevenbak, as well as many more before him, shared most if not all the same views & passions towards conservatism. The difference? A different religious belief. For that, he was baited into an area he probably never wanted to go. His goal was simply to defend his religion & his God.
We as conservatives often wonder why we're losing the war of ideas, & we are losing that war. Part of the reason we're losing is due to spineless &/or corrupt political leaders. But another significant reason is that there is a faction of our movement that seems hell bent on eating their own. The scenario that just played out w/ Sevenbak is a glaring example of just that. We've lost yet another key player in the movement here at FR.
Can you imagine an independent that would come to this site, looking to see what conservatism is all about, just to find what a minority is able to do w/ other conservatives? The left paints conservatives as religious fanatics, & it resonates w/ many. Is there any wonder why considering what is found here? Instead of working on issues together to move the movement along, some are allowed to make this a site of holy wars. United we conquer, divided we fall, & will continue falling.
LDS rarely if ever start threads going after another religion. We simply defend our faith as do other religions (namely the Catholics). For that we are often vilified, & on a conservative site! I know some of you anti’s feel you're doing a good work for conservatism, doing the Lord's work. Do you really realize how many you're actually driving away? Do you realize how much the work is retarded by the inability to work for the common good, rather than just proving you're “right” on religious matters?
I don't think it's a coincidence that the last freepathon took about 2 months to complete. The LDS are a rather small contingent here & even w/ the conspiracy theory that's been bounded about here, w/ no validity I might add, we wouldn't add up to the lack of numbers we see.
I talk to others that were former freepers that have left b/c they feel the site has lost it's edge. They don't like the needless wars on matters that have nothing to do w/ conservatism. They hate coming here to see the carnage on a daily basis among those who should be fighting arm in arm. They don't have to visit the religious threads, but they do, just to see what's happening on that side. BTW, the vast majority of these formers I talk about are non LDS, some are even Evangelicals who are quite embarrassed by their brethren here.
As has become quite customary here, I'm sure I will be trashed now by the very ones of whom I write. It doesn't bother me. I deal w/ those that are far more skilled at their craft in the bus. world on a daily basis, thus have developed a tough skin. But ask yourself this, are you moving the conservative cause along by your actions, or just satisfying your narcissistic tendencies.
For some here, it's not about a search for the truth, or even sharing the truth they have found, rather just about the win. You may at times feel you've won a personal battle, but you may be costing us the conservative war. An exchange of ideas here, even though competing, & on religion at times when appropriate, is not bad. But when it gets personal, when you trash another b/c of their religious beliefs, when you start using the liberal playbook, then we weaken our efforts as conservatives.
That has been tolerated here for some time now. At what cost? To some, the FR has lost some of it's original identity. The repercussions are perhaps the price that has been paid. Just food for thought. Those that want a fight in the sandbox, not today, at least not for me. My best to my FRiends here & enemy alike.
It is so sad but those antis who want us gone are really having a field day but the day will come all well be resolved.
It reminds me of King Herod
Acts 12: 1,
1 Now about that time Herod the king stretched forth his hands to vex certain of the church.
2 And he killed James the brother of John with the sword.
3 And because he saw it pleased the Jews, he proceeded further to take Peter also. (Then were the days of unleavened bread.)
4 And when he had apprehended him, he put him in prison, and delivered him to four quaternions of soldiers to keep him; intending after Easter to bring him forth to the people.
Tyranny
http://scriptures.lds.org/en/tg/t/181
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I doubt that Sevenbak was banned/suspended because someone hit the abuse button. Sevenbak made some remarks on other sites that are most likely what resulted in his banning/suspension.
As for the rest of your post, this is a forum, and the overly sensitive may not be at home here. Not everyone welcomes debate. However, what really makes me sad is that so many in our country seem to have become too willing to yield the fight to the Left. Our forefathers would be struck dumb if they could see what this country has become, and how little it takes for someone on an internet forum to give up and slink away. Now that's sad.
Tell us Reno, when will the mormons stop their proselytizing on FR? Do you expect the anti-Christian stuff being posted right now in Caucus and Devotional threads to just go unanswered?
The mormon idea of the FReeRepublic definition of free speech is, and has been for some time, "Free speech for me but not for thee".
The reception that Mitt Romney got from the voters of the US belies your contention that a handful of Christians posting rebuttal to mormon proselytizing on FR is going to "destroy the conservatives"....
Romney did more to destroy the conservative chances at winning in '08 than any single person or group with his underhanded attempts to destroy the candidacy of those who were more qualified.
The idea that the few hundreds of posts on the Religion Forum being able to influence visitors over the thousands of posts on the other forums is frankly, bovine excrement!
We as conservatives often wonder why we're losing the war of ideas, & we are losing that war. Part of the reason we're losing is due to spineless &/or corrupt political leaders. But another significant reason is that there is a faction of our movement that seems hell bent on eating their own...Can you imagine an independent that would come to this site, looking to see what conservatism is all about, just to find what a minority is able to do w/ other conservatives? The left paints conservatives as religious fanatics, & it resonates w/ many. Is there any wonder why considering what is found here? Instead of working on issues together to move the movement along, some are allowed to make this a site of holy wars. United we conquer, divided we fall, & will continue falling. [Reno232]
Reaganaut posted that part of what I said in post #369 bears repeating, so the next 3 graphs repeat that...but keep reading...'cause I doubt if I used the same appeal to Mormons that Reno just tried on us that they would agree with those "terms."
By most means, Christians & LDS can and should continue to work together on Prop 8 like campaigns, pro-life work, and other cultural & political venues. We need to work together without conveying that this is our highest priority.
But that doesn't translate into neglect that we share our deepest differences. One day this world's going to pass away -- and even before it does -- most if not all of us FREEPERS will.
We all face ultimate accountability before a Pure Judge. We'll either claim His Son's shed blood as the rite of passage to remain in His presence, or we'll hold on to a no-go substitute. That is why we need to work together at most costs -- but not all costs. There's something coming that transcends this world and its conflicts.
LDS rarely if ever start threads going after another religion. We simply defend our faith as do other religions (namely the Catholics). For that we are often vilified, & on a conservative site! I know some of you anti’s feel you're doing a good work for conservatism, doing the Lord's work. Do you really realize how many you're actually driving away? [Reno 232]
Give me a break. One of the reasons why LDS have diminished their thread-posting FR is because they were finally being challenged each time. Restornu, Grig, and others used to post threads quite regularly. And what would be expect from LDS? Many have spent two years on a mission. Does that mean they automatically yield their missionary spirit at the end of those 2 years? (Not on your life)
Furthermore, could you imagine Christians making the following appeal to the LDS Church? (the words in italic are Reno's words -- I've just applied them putting the shoe on the other foot):
Christians rarely if ever start 2-year full-time missionary work going after LDS in western states. We simply defend our faith as do other religions (namely the Catholics). For that we are often vilified, on LDS.org -- a supposedly conservative site! LDS.org calls us apostates, says ALL of our creeds (not just some of them) are an "abomination to the Lord" and that our professing believers are ALL "corrupt."
I know some of you anti-Christian Mormons feel you're doing a good work for your conservative God, doing the Lord's work by going on these 2-year missions. Do you really realize how many you're actually driving away? I mean, once you convert a Christian to Mormonism, they spend endless hours in genealogical research, temple ceremonies & rituals, bishop meetings to get their temple-worthy checklist established, long Sunday meetings, endless extra time at work to pay for childrens' 2-year mission trips, etc. What time is left over for the cultural and political cause? Do you realize how much the work is retarded by the inability to work for the common good, rather than just proving you're “right” on religious matters? on the porches, doorsteps and homes that the 60,000 LDS missionaries are sent to -- the majority of them being already Christian homes? (If the LDS was really "Christian" wouldn't they concentrate on hitting up pagan homes and not Christian ones?)
...For some missionaries representing the LDS church, it's not about a search for the truth, or even sharing the truth they have found, rather just about the win so they can pad their missionary stats and look good to their supervisors and family members back home. You may at times feel you've won a personal battle, proclaiming the Mormon gospel, but you may be costing us the conservative war [by tying people up in endless genealogies, which the apostle Paul expressly warned against -- 1 Tim. 1:4]. An exchange of ideas on porches, doorsteps and living rooms, even though competing, & on religion at times when appropriate, is not bad. But when it gets personal, when LDS missionaries trash another b/c of their religious beliefs, -- like calling every single Christian sect "apostates," "corrupt" and featuring abominable creeds [see LDS scripture Joseph Smith - History, vv. 18-20]. when you start using the liberal playbook, then we weaken our efforts as conservatives.
Reno, you and EVERY Mormon would laugh your heads off if a group of Christians made the above appeal to the Mormon church, which BTW, PROVED it's not just a religious entity but a political one by giving a couple hundred thou to Prop 8 campaign.
Wow! Just wow, Reno! Why do you excuse miscues and sin in people's lives? I don't know you well enough, so please explain. I can think of reasons why that might apply to some Mormons -- but I don't know if they're applicable to you. (For example...notions that LDS need to be perfect or that LDS are "gods-in-embryo").
Sevenbak apparently gets banned b/c of his comments about FR on another posting board. What? Did Christian FREEPERS put on a leash on him and force him into that posting board? Did Christian FREEPERS establish that posting board as some kind of "come on" to "bait" him -- as you claim? Wasn't an LDS posting board established primarily for LDS posters???
You really believe that somehow Sevenbak lost his "free agency" because of the overwhelming online sovereignty we must have? -- and that "...he was baited into an area he probably never wanted to go."
Really? Really? Where's sense of responsibility for free agency among LDS? We hear them preach "free agency" all the time? Where's your sense of self-responsibility? Where's your comprehension of the founding fathers' vision of self-government? Before ANY vision of a political government, we MUST have one of a self- government!!! Because if we have no self-government, there's not enough laws, ordinances, codes, detectives, policemen, district attorneys, court rooms, and prisons to hold us all!!!!!!
All you've done, Reno, with this latest evidence of your pattern of blame-shifting is 100% reinforce what I wrote in post #1100, which I will repeat for all to see ... and no, I don't bow to your judgmental heart theories where you use your personal urim & thummim to see into the hearts of people you don't want to know very well, but would rather just legalistically judge them from afar (your comment about ...are you moving the conservative cause along by your actions, or just satisfying your narcissistic tendencies).
Here's the post you made to JR earlier in the thread: Jim, I’m fascinated by your virtual disappearance since posting this thread. With all that’s been said here & posted to you, I would think you would have had more to say. Surely you knew the firestorm this thread would create.
And here was my response:
Typical LDS re-shift. A spammer starts an anti-FR site. Jim addresses it head-on. Who does Reno believe to be the instigator? The anti-FR spammer? (Nope) Instead he puts the collar on Jim: "Surely you knew the firestorm this thread would create."
Instead of Reno holding the spammer site accountable, he blames Jim as the "creator" of a firestorm.
This is the perfect microcosm of what's been happening for 179 years. Before any Christian ever even knew of the word "Mormon," the founding vision of Joseph Smith was: "they [other sects/churches] were ALL wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were ALL corrupt" (from Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith-History 1:19).
This was never just left as Joseph Smith's opinion. A later generation of Mormons elected to enshrine this statement into the Mormon Scripture "Hall of Fame" -- they canonized it as God's opinion of all non-Mormon sects/churches/members.
LDS leaders then went on to press Christians that they all apostatized -- all, that is, except a 2,000-year-old apostle named John and three Nephite disciples even older than John (they said these people are still wandering the earth somewhere).
The original "anti" was Joseph Smith. He was "anti-Christian." He was against the Christian church, claiming they were wrong, 100% corrupt and embraced 100% putrid creeds. But what do Mormons do? They re-shift the focus. No, it's not Joseph Smith and his leaders who followed who were the protagonists raising up firestorms everywhere they went; 'twas these "antis."
That's been the Mormon narrative all along. It doesn't mean that Christians have never reacted badly in these exchanges. Some/many have. That's also part of history.
But we see in this thread a microcosm of the dynamics involved.