Posted on 03/21/2009 7:41:56 AM PDT by Publius
The businessmen in the book who are looters have one thing in common. They rely on government. Orren Boyle got a $200 million government loan to create Associated Steel. Jim Taggart wants government protection from competing railroads.
Our current looters seek government backstopping for their endeavors, like mortgages to people who shouldn't have them. That isn't capitalism.
Exactly. It isn't. If you check my post #36, you'll see that I indicated the "looters" included businessowners who destroy their competition through government under the guise of "anti-monopoly", etc.
That's not a criticism of capitalism, but a criticism of businessowners who work against it through their connections in the government.
Let me ask you something. what do you think the impact of credit default swaps and deregulation has had on the courrent financial situation?
To qualify further: Mozilo was interested in profit. That would’ve been capitalism if Countrywide had been allowed to fail, and every bank/company who’d bought those mortgages had been allowed to fail right along with it. But, because the government bailed out Mozilo’s company (with our money), as well as others, it’s not capitalism. That’s the way I see it, anyway.
We’ve never lived in a truly capitalist country. With the FDIC, banks are insured by our tax dollars, and Fannie and Freddie offered them a false sense of security. I’m one of the few here (and maybe the only FReeper) who sees the CRA as a minor factor, if one at all, although I agree it’s bad policy. The Federal Reserve and the low interest rates Greenspan set was the major factor. JMHO. And the book AS is right on the mark. Government is to blame, though we each may disagree on how government is to blame.
WHAT deregulation???
The problem lies in government defining the manner of business, instead of putting the market to work, or at least allowing it to. Had those mortgagers not been rewarded (because of regulation) for making bad loans, and those mortgagees not been rewarded with mortgages the market couldn’t bear, we (semi-innocent bystanders and proponents of still more regulation) wouldn’t be on the hook.
Kirk
If by "we" you mean those people alive today, you're absolutely right.
If you ever have an hour to spare, watch the video on this thread:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2209660/posts
IMHO, Peter Schiff explains so well in that video how government policy and regulation led us into this crisis. I see it the way he sees it, but I could never put it into words like he can. Anyway, if you want to know where I stand, that’s where.
That’s an excllent video, BTW. After viewing it late one night, I had trouble sleeping.
In your opinion, when did this country ever have pure free market capitalism? I’m not trying to be argumentative. I’m just wondering what your opinion is. Everyone has a different take on it.
After Lincoln, we settled into a rather primitive form of corporate fascism in which Congress, aided and abetted by the robber barons, dictated success in the marketplace by rationing capital. No free market there.
We thought we could fix the problem with more democracy via the 17th Amendment, but nothing really changed.
The Progressives decided to revive the Jeffersonian impulse by taking control of Hamilton's central government and diverting it to Jeffersonian principles, but all they did was create what Robert Heilbronner calls "government capitalism", the current bane of our existence and creator of the present crisis.
So I'd have to say that we briefly had a shot at free market capitalism before 1861, but industrialists took their successes and parlayed them into shifting the playing field to one side. We've been reacting to that fact ever since.
sure but you have to watch this video by CNBC in return.
http://www.hulu.com/watch/59026/cnbc-originals-house-of-cards#s-p1-so-i0
This was one of my favorite chapters - if not my favorite - because here’s where the plot gets meatier.
Here’s that story about the real-life company with the same “plan” as the Twentieth Century Motor Company”:
OBAMA’S FAVORITE COLORADO SOLAR PANEL MAKER:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2188466/posts
“Employees, no matter what their job description, have the same pay scale.” “All major decisions made by consensus of all company employees.”
Warning: There might be one post there with a spoiler.
I’ll be back later to continue the discussion. And I will check out the videos and comment, too.
It's not a spoiler. If you referred to that later chapter where a victim of Ivy Starnes' reign of terror tells the inside story of the Twentieth Century Motor Co., that would be a spoiler.
I should point out that if you’re leaning at placing the blame on CRA. I should point out that even though CRA was a requirement of commercial banks it was never a requirement for the investment banks that were funding mortgage brokers.
That was very entertaining I enjoyed watching it thanks. I’ve had of pretty much the same sentiments that Peter Schiff has had for the past several years as well.
The only things I took exception to and they’re minor is at the 26:40 mark he makes a comment about the governent allowing for larger securitization of loans than the free market would have. Which if you pay attention he contradicts himeslef several seconds later when he acknowledges Wall Street’s role in stepping in to the position of Fannie and Freddie basically allowing for the free market approach to securitized lending. Which as we all realize by now hopefully isn’t actually very securitized...
I also thought that his outlook on the value of dollar was a little gloomier and doomier than I can imagine. But I do forsee price fixing and I do agree with a forth coming currency bubble.
Anyways I’m curious as to how you feel about Peter’s position opposing outsourcing. FYI, I see globalization as further self destruction of America. But I know that many here don’t agree with that, I’m just about your sentiments?
I consider the Colorado portion of “Atlas Shrugged” to be somewhat of an allegory to historical events.
During the dark ages, humanity regressed, both physically. (population declined) and culturally (accumulated knowledge was lost)
Ms. Rand is describing another dark age being brought on by those who profess enlightenment.
Currently, I see a monetary and intellectual “Dark Age” approaching.
We have companies being vilified for honoring contracts and making money, (Exxon, AIG) intellectual discourse and free speech being suppressed through the “pc thought police.”
Again, the above is being pushed off on us by our “intellectual and social elites.”
Keep going, FRiend - you’re on a roll. ;-)
Sorry for the incomplete thought, I spent a bunch of time driving today and my brain is not quite all there.
Anyway, in Atlas Shrugged, you see government, through passing laws, killing off business and jobs in Colorado.
Rand foretold, in AS, the rewarding of failure that will happen, once business and government become intertwined.
We are no longer seeing “Atlas Shrugged” as fiction, rather, it is a cautionary tale of what happens when success is punished with special laws written to target specific portions of the population.
We have the dubious pleasure of living “Atlas Shrugged,” while being told to eat cake and enjoy our circuses.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.