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To: WVKayaker
You Catholic Church bashers fail to mention the Catholics who were killed by Protestants, during and after the Reformation.

I openly admit that various Catholic leaders made huge mistakes.

(So did the Jews in the Old Testament, if memory serves. This did not change the fact that they were the “chosen people” did it?)

Tell me your denomination, and I can, in short order, find a terrible thing done, by someone in your denomination, in the name of your faith.

Done under false pretenses, but done just the same.

214 posted on 03/21/2009 10:29:17 AM PDT by Kansas58
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To: Kansas58
I openly admit that various Catholic leaders made huge mistakes.

From the RC church's website:

...The rejection of papal infallibility by "Bible Christians" stems from their view of the Church. They do not think Christ established a visible Church, which means they do not believe in a hierarchy of bishops headed by the pope.

This is no place to give an elaborate demonstration of the establishment of a visible Church. But it is simple enough to point out that the New Testament shows the apostles setting up, after their Master’s instructions, a visible organization, and that every Christian writer in the early centuries—in fact, nearly all Christians until the Reformation—fully recognized that Christ set up an ongoing organization.

One example of this ancient belief comes to us from Ignatius of Antioch. In his second-century letter to the church in Smyrna, he wrote, "Wherever the bishop appears, let the people be there; just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church" (Letter to the Smyrnaeans, 8, 1 [A.D. 110])...

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... But he must be able to teach rightly, since instruction for the sake of salvation is a primary function of the Church. For men to be saved, they must know what is to be believed. They must have a perfectly steady rock to build upon and to trust as the source of solemn Christian teaching. And that’s why papal infallibility exists...

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From Wiki inquiry on "catholic":

Ignatius of Antioch

A letter written by Ignatius to Christians in Smyrna[4] around 106 is the earliest surviving witness to the use of the term catholic church (Letter to the Smyrnaeans, 8). By catholic church Ignatius designated the Christian Church in its universal aspect, as "catholic" still meant no more than "universal", since it was only later that the word "catholic" took on the ecclesiastical meaning of "orthodox and apostolic".*[5] Ignatius considered that certain heretics of his time, who disavowed that Jesus was a material being who actually suffered and died, saying instead that "he only seemed to suffer" (Smyrnaeans, 2), were not really Christians.[6] The term is also used in the Martyrdom of Polycarp in 155 and in the Muratorian fragment, about 177. *(emphasis mine!)

The Roman church excels in re-writing history...

Joe Smith founded the True Church. Just ask a Mormon... /sarcasm

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...and finally, Paul had a lot to say to the Roman Church. He wrote a letter specifically to address their apparent inability to agree on the basics. Read the whole book and get back to me...

from the NIV, Romans 1:8ff:

8First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your faith is being reported all over the world. 9God, whom I serve with my whole heart in preaching the gospel of his Son, is my witness how constantly I remember you 10in my prayers at all times; and I pray that now at last by God's will the way may be opened for me to come to you.

11I long to see you so that I may impart to you some spiritual gift to make you strong— 12that is, that you and I may be mutually encouraged by each other's faith. 13I do not want you to be unaware, brothers, that I planned many times to come to you (but have been prevented from doing so until now) in order that I might have a harvest among you, just as I have had among the other Gentiles.

14I am obligated both to Greeks and non-Greeks, both to the wise and the foolish. 15That is why I am so eager to preach the gospel also to you who are at Rome. 16I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 17For in the gospel a righteousness from God is revealed, a righteousness that is by faith from first to last,[c] just as it is written: "The righteous will live by faith."...[d]

219 posted on 03/21/2009 10:59:28 AM PDT by WVKayaker (Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear - not absence of fear. -Mark Twain)
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