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To: rxsid
I thought our military was stretched too thin?

I am not a military planner nor will I claim to be. I will not profess that x brigades and y carrier groups are capable of etc... There are people here that know more about that than I.

What I claim to be is a realist which has at least a minimal understanding of the realities of the world.

The plain and simple fact is that there are bad people that want to do bad things to our nation. In addition to that there are nations who want to harm our interests, not necessarily out of pure evil intents, but out of self interests and with little or no regard to their impact on our nation.

Then there are others, who wish us harm out of greed or jealousy absent national intent or interest.

This is not new with O in charge, it hasn't been new for more than 2000 years. It's just the way it is. And the way it is, is that projecting weakness creates weakness. Projecting strength creates strength. That is exactly what China, N. Korea, Iran, Russia, etc., are currently doing.

I have a hard time believing that it is that difficult to observe. These nationas are projecting strength in an attempt to project or create a posture of weakeness on the US's part. If successful, the real or percieved diminshed US strength leads to increased projections of the other strength real or percienved.

It is the imbalance in percived and real strengths that is the real danger associated with the development of serious conflicts. Sooner or later the perceptions over-ride the realities and someone does something very stupid, or back the stronger into a corner that they have a lack of options to deal with. That's when the fit hits the shan traditionally.

Backing off from China's agression will only encourage them to expand the tactics to more areas and situations. This will also encourage others to do the same. Not backing them down will lead to greater potential for significant conflict.

Worrying how NK will respond to our actions re China is largely irrelevant. Yes, they have enough artillery to blast the SK capitol, but allowing that potential to dictate the terms by which we address the threats posed by China is absurd.

Russia is already making plays to take back ex satellites. Ukraine is their ultimate goal. No secrets there. Once again, failing to protect our immediate interests only encourages them to whittle away.

Projecting weakeness will always be problematic.

69 posted on 03/12/2009 6:55:21 PM PDT by !1776!
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To: !1776!
Oh, I'm certainly not advocating we go supine on the issue...or that we wouldn't ultimately beat the Chinease in even an all out war. Only that if Barry gets a little too cockey (has been known to do that), it could cost us dearly. If the libs think the Iraq war was costly both in terms of blood & treasure...they'd be in for a rude awakinging. As would our country. My remark about being overstreached was /sarcaism and should have been noted as such.

" China expands sub fleet

Little is known about China's nuclear forces and efforts by Pentagon officials to engage Chinese military leaders about their strategic weapons and forces has not been successful. China's government has insisted its current modernization is part of a peaceful development, but the contrasting strategic nuclear-forces buildup is worrying, defense officials said. The missile-submarine buildup would provide Beijing with a major upgrade on current capabilities. In 1983, China built one Xia-class nuclear-powered ballistic missile submarine, reportedly with 12 1,000-mile range JL-1 missiles. But that solitary submarine has only twice test-fired its missiles and never ventured beyond China's regional waters.

Although the range of the JL-1 limits the Xia's utility as a deterrent platform, targets throughout the region, including U.S. military facilities, could be targeted with the JL-1 from launch points inside traditional Chinese navy operating areas," the ONI said.

On China's new attack submarine, the ONI stated that China already has launched and is performing sea trials on an unspecified number of Type 093 nuclear-powered attack submarines. Published reports in China have said two Type 093 attack submarines are deployed and use "foreign technologies" and advanced anti-ship missiles and torpedoes.

The new advances are part of China's efforts to bolster its anti-ship weapons to permit strikes at greater ranges from the Chinese coast than its current diesel-powered submarine force offers, the ONI said. China currently is upgrading its current force of about 55 attack submarines -- most of them easy-to-track diesel boats -- with more-advanced and harder-to-track vessels, including Russian-made Kilos, and its own Song- and Yuan-class submarines.

Each of these submarine classes, which are quiet platforms with anti-ship cruise missiles, is an integral part of China's regional anti-access strategy," ONI said. "The quieting incorporated into these submarines is required for successful operations in the open ocean operating areas which could facilitate the [Chinese navy's] wartime mission of keeping enemy combatants outside of strike range of the theater of operation."

The Chinese are known to have a very advanced sub force:
http://www.sinodefence.com/navy/sub/default.asp

The real potential of loosing a carrier (and more), first time since WWII, is sobering.

Again, long term protracted war...we win. But almost certainly the cost in blood in treasure in that war would greatly surpase that of the Iraq war. China is no Iraq. And, let's not give the starving lunitic millions of N. Koreans, nor the Russians, an easy way to their goals by being 'tied-up' in another big time consuming conflict...unless of course our national security is directly threatened.

This latest incident, weather in international waters (as we condend) or in their territorial waters (as they contend) is all about flexing muscles and postering and should not be allowed to escalate and further than that IMO.

96 posted on 03/12/2009 9:42:23 PM PDT by rxsid
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