Posted on 03/12/2009 5:22:43 PM PDT by Las Vegas Ron
Kickass first 50 days, huh....
I still cannot believe this POS is POTUS.
You said — “Not a war I want him to get ballsy in, you know?”
No, not suggesting a war here. It’s just that this is International waters and the U.S. *has been* patrolling these waters for a very long time (decades). They are establishing (and have been establishing) the right of free passage in these waters without Chinese interference. That’s been a “conscious aim” of U.S. Foreign policy there. Nothing has changed.
Now, if China manages to chase the U.S. out of these International waters, then it’s the U.S. that has allowed China to “stake its claim” on International waters and the U.S. has “implicitly agreed” with them.
We can’t let that happen...
I certaqinly hope so, and that the CIC doesn't pull the rug out from under them if they are...
Exactly right...
Well, sending more NON WARSHIPS into those waters to show them we aren’t going anywhere is one thing, but warships are another. China isn’t going to take that as anything but aggression.
I know....what were we doing w/ our ships in the South China Sea in the 1st place?
You said — “Well, sending more NON WARSHIPS into those waters to show them we aren’t going anywhere is one thing, but warships are another. China isn’t going to take that as anything but aggression.”
—
I hope you do realize that the U.S. has been sending warships into this area, continuously for decades. This is not new. It is exactly U.S. warships that have been keeping these waters “open”...
If you had the scenario of U.S. warships never going into this area and only merchant ships doing so — then a sudden appearance of U.S. warships would look like provocation. It would have that kind of appearance.
But, now, when you consider that it was ‘precisely U.S. warships that have been continuously patrolling these areas, without ever ceasing that function, all along —then no..., it can’t be considered provocation...
I hope you see that difference.
And believe me, the U.S. is not about to intrude upon territorial waters. That’s not what they’re doing...
I am not a military planner nor will I claim to be. I will not profess that x brigades and y carrier groups are capable of etc... There are people here that know more about that than I.
What I claim to be is a realist which has at least a minimal understanding of the realities of the world.
The plain and simple fact is that there are bad people that want to do bad things to our nation. In addition to that there are nations who want to harm our interests, not necessarily out of pure evil intents, but out of self interests and with little or no regard to their impact on our nation.
Then there are others, who wish us harm out of greed or jealousy absent national intent or interest.
This is not new with O in charge, it hasn't been new for more than 2000 years. It's just the way it is. And the way it is, is that projecting weakness creates weakness. Projecting strength creates strength. That is exactly what China, N. Korea, Iran, Russia, etc., are currently doing.
I have a hard time believing that it is that difficult to observe. These nationas are projecting strength in an attempt to project or create a posture of weakeness on the US's part. If successful, the real or percieved diminshed US strength leads to increased projections of the other strength real or percienved.
It is the imbalance in percived and real strengths that is the real danger associated with the development of serious conflicts. Sooner or later the perceptions over-ride the realities and someone does something very stupid, or back the stronger into a corner that they have a lack of options to deal with. That's when the fit hits the shan traditionally.
Backing off from China's agression will only encourage them to expand the tactics to more areas and situations. This will also encourage others to do the same. Not backing them down will lead to greater potential for significant conflict.
Worrying how NK will respond to our actions re China is largely irrelevant. Yes, they have enough artillery to blast the SK capitol, but allowing that potential to dictate the terms by which we address the threats posed by China is absurd.
Russia is already making plays to take back ex satellites. Ukraine is their ultimate goal. No secrets there. Once again, failing to protect our immediate interests only encourages them to whittle away.
Projecting weakeness will always be problematic.
You said — “I know....what were we doing w/ our ships in the South China Sea in the 1st place?”
—
Ummmm..., you may not realize this, but U.S. warships have been patrolling this area for decades, acting from U.S. Foreign Policy, that these waters are International waters and are free and open for all ships to travel. They have continuously made this point by sending our warships in this area to *enforce* that very thing.
And without that, China wants to make it private and territorial waters. They’ve been prevented from doing this by the U.S. aggressive patrolling in the area...
So you don’t have much of a problem of having our ships sailing into China’s back yard, international waters they may be? It looks like that’s asking for trouble, isn’t it? I’m just curious.
You said — “So you don’t have much of a problem of having our ships sailing into China’s back yard, international waters they may be? It looks like that’s asking for trouble, isn’t it? I’m just curious.”
No, not at all...
I guess a lot of people don’t realize that China has been trying for a very long time to “close up” International waters and make it their “territorial waters” by “facts on the ground”.
But, the U.S. has had a very long-term policy of keeping International waters open in that area (where China has been trying to “close them up”) for decades. The U.S. has been continuously patrolling these waters with U.S. warships for decades. This is nothing new...
If they cease doing this — then that gives China the implicit agreement that they can have these waters as their own private territorial waters...
Having this guy at the helm (if he could find a helm) makes me nervous too. I could never imagine him, or any member of the Democratic party, actually confronting an enemy of this country anywhere but in a courtroom. I’d sooner have voted for Donald Duck for president than this guy, or anybody from the current Democratic party.
Having said all that, i’m glad he at least issued this press release and i hope it represents actual action. I’d like to think it’s better than nothing.
Go Obama. Stand up to these Chinese who might think that America is too pre-occupied with home matters to do anything
This could be his moment to shock us all
Every nation but us. Our elected officials are just interested in selling us out.
As we well should... :-)
True..., thank God for small blessings...
!LMAO!...;0)
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