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To: wagglebee
California same-sex "marriage" supporters are collecting signatures to support a ballot initiative that would remove civil marriage from California law entirely

There is a seriously bright side to this (one that the queers won't recognize). Allow me to elucidate:

Right now, marriages performed in churches or marriages performed by clergy outside of a church setting are recognized by the state and a clergyman can sign the marriage license (at least in most places that I am aware of). That makes the clergyman an agent of the state.

That one fact provides a little crack in the door that the queers could use to take the Church (or some protestant denomination) to court to claim discrimination if the clergy refused to "marry" a homosexual couple. You might say "what about the first amendment?" The way the courts are starting to act, the bill of rights is only applicable if they feel like it.

If there is no legal concept of marriage any more, then the religious sacrament should have no significance in a court of law either way and therefore, you're not infringing upon a queer's rights if you refuse to provide a religious service for them (in accordance with applicable denominational rules).

As Catholics, there won't really be any difference to us one way or the other (in fact, it might be a little less confusing than now, in regards to irregular but valid marriages). The interesting part will be a question about Protestants, since they consider a marriage in front of a JP to be legitimate (as far as I know...correct me if I'm wrong). Will they accept a signed domestic contract in front of a notary public to be the same as marriage?

The bad news is that the queers are doing this to support their agenda. IMHO, there is a seriously silver lining to this dark cloud.

15 posted on 03/11/2009 4:49:56 PM PDT by markomalley (Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus)
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To: markomalley

Yes. If it passes, a bright line will be drawn between serious Catholics who live by their religion first, and by the laws of the state incidentally. That would be good for Catholicism and by the same token, good for all fundamentalist (small “f”: the Eastern Orthodox, conservative Protestant, Muslim, orthodox Jews) religions.

However, it is horrible public policy and should be opposed by anyone who wants to preserve the American system of civil government. Along with Roe v. Wade, that will be another change in the American jurisprudence that delegitimizes the government.


32 posted on 03/12/2009 8:40:31 AM PDT by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: markomalley

Exactly. Nobody is any more or less married because gubberment says so. I don’t think gubberment involvement in marriage has been very good for the ol’ institution at all. Like most things where gubberment gets involved, it will eventually mess up and put forth impossibilities like “gay mariage”.

Freegards


34 posted on 03/12/2009 10:47:34 AM PDT by Ransomed (Son of Ransomed Says Keep the Faith!)
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To: markomalley
The bad news is that the queers are doing this to support their agenda. IMHO, there is a seriously silver lining to this dark cloud.

Yeah, there is a libertarian side of me that perhaps the government should stay out of regulating marriage, leave it up to the churches and other religious institutions and/or common law. Still in my mind and heart, a marriage is between a man and a woman. The only other "bright side" is that least this is the more honest way to change the law my using the process that is using the standard legal process to change, amended, get rid of or make the law instead of using judicial fiat to thrust it upon us. Open it up to debate and let the legislators pass or fail it as it may be. The proponents of homosexual marriage have every right to go about and change the law through the standard process as we do preserving it and if they want something then this is the way they should do it. It is like Sgt. Joe Friday said in one "Dragnet 1967" episode, if you don't like a certain law, "work within the system to change it." I doubt this will pass but at least this is the more honest way to do it. I'm not for it of course, but I'm just saying this is the process on how we change and amend laws.
36 posted on 03/12/2009 7:05:19 PM PDT by Nowhere Man (Is Barak HUSSEIN Obama an Anti-Christ? - B.O. Stinks! (Robert Riddle))
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