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To: xcamel
You better get your sources out, because Neanderthal genes are found in about 70% of the living population of Europe today.

Your post is complete hogwash.

I'd be perfectly happy to let the world judge between me and thee as to who the BS artist was.

Neanderthal DNA is typically described as 'about halfway between ours and that of a chimpanzee'.

You can do your own google searches on 'neanderthal dna' or 'neanderthal dna chimpanzee'; most of what turns up in standard science outlets and journals will look like this or this.

Fossil DNA proves Neanderthals were not ancestors of humans

Anjali Mody

LONDON, JULY 11: The theory that modern humans descended from Neanderthals has been proved wrong by scientists who have worked on Deoxyribo Nucleic Acid (DNA) extracted from a 30,000 year old, fossilised bones of a Neanderthal man. The scientists, led by Svante Paabo of the University of Munich, said that their research established that Neanderthal man was too distant genetically to have been an ancestor of modern man.

The findings have been published in the journal Cell. Using techniques that determine how closely living beings are genetically related, they established that the ancestors of Neanderthals branched off from the human family tree some 600,000 years ago. Neanderthals looked like human beings, had large brains, stood erect and used tools. There is evidence that Cro-Magnon people, who became modern humans, lived at the same time as Neanderthals and interacted with them. According to Chris Stringer, an expert in early humans at London's Natural History Museum, some ancient tools and jewellery indicate they may have traded. But, he says, ``It does not look like they interbred with our ancestors.''

Stringer said that the finding was ``equivalent to landing the Pathfinder on Mars and getting it to work. ``I have not encountered anyone in the scientific world who doubts that they have recovered Neanderthal DNA. We know if anything is a Neanderthal, this is a Neanderthal. ..One couldn't have hoped for a better specimen,'' he added.

Stringer said that the finding would tip the balance in the often bitter dispute about how humans evolved. Those who traced the evolution of modern humans to Neanderthals, who died out about 30,000 years ago, held that there was a `missing link' between Neanderthals and Homo Sapiens. Stringer said the evidence firmly supported the `Out of Africa' theory of human origin. Those, like Stringer, who subscribe to this theory say modern humans evolved in Africa and spread across the world about 1,00,000 years ago.

The other, competing theory is that Homo Erectus - an early ancestor of modern humans - moved out of Africa and across the world and that modern humans evolved separately in several different regions. Both these theories were reached by examining fossils. But, as an excited Stringer said, ``Now we have a completely different approach, and about 1,00,000 years ago our real ancestors emerged from Africa.''

Paabo said that the DNA came from the first skeleton of a Neanderthal found in Germany's Neander Valley in 1856. ``The fossil we have worked with is not just any Neanderthal....it is the Neanderthal that has given the name to the species.''

The work was difficult, Paabo admits, particularly as the techniques used were sensitive and tended to pick up outside DNA contamination. He also said the bones had been shellacked, which could have preserved the DNA and protected them from contamination by modern DNA.

He said his team ran four separate tests for authenticity - checking whether other amino acids had survived, making sure the DNA sequences they found did not exist in modern humans, making sure the DNA could be replicated in their own lab and then getting other labs to duplicate their results. Comparisons with the DNA of modern humans and of apes showed the Neanderthal was about halfway between a modern human and a chimpanzee.

Thomas Lindahl, a DNA expert for Britain's Imperial Cancer Research Fund, said, ``It's a real tour de force and probably the most important work that has been done so far on ancient DNA.''

Lindahl also expressed his surprise that the DNA, which usually degrades easily, had survived for so long. Paabo explained that the DNA survived most probably because the fossil came from the cold north of Germany. Efforts to get DNA from fossils from the Middle East had so far failed.


72 posted on 03/11/2009 12:29:53 PM PDT by varmintman
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To: varmintman
Great.. a 12 year old article that has been debunked by several in the last 3 years, not the least of which is the completely decoded Neanderthal genome, which puts “us and them” as coexisting, and co-evolutionary species that share 99.7% of the same DNA sequence.

Now your post and your “proof” are both hogwash.

107 posted on 03/11/2009 1:06:40 PM PDT by xcamel (The urge to save humanity is always a false front for the urge to rule it. - H. L. Mencken)
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To: varmintman; xcamel
Actually, neandertal's are starting to appear more and more human all the time--GGG

First Draft of the Neandertal Genome Sequence Released

by Jeffrey Tomkins, Ph.D.*

The highly anticipated initial draft assembly of the Neandertal genome was announced at the Annual Meeting of the American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS) in the United States and at a European press conference.1 This genomic milestone involves approximately 3 billion bases of ancient human (Neandertal) DNA sequenced so far, which is the same amount of DNA contained in one set of human chromosomes or a single genome coverage. This is a major event in the booming scientific field referred to as “paleogenomics,” a discipline that studies ancient DNA and is providing exciting new evidence in support of the recent creation model.

The Neandertal DNA was obtained from bone fragments using advanced isolation techniques developed specifically to remove contamination and alleviate DNA damage associated with ancient DNA. In addition, “next generation” sequencing technology involving new chemistry and instrumentation was used to rapidly produce considerably more DNA sequence data per laboratory run than previous technologies.

The effort to produce an initial 3 billion bases of DNA for the Neandertal genome was led by Dr. Svaante Paabo of the Institute for Anthropology at the Max Planck Research Institute in Germany. It should be noted that future Neandertal sequencing promises to increase the accuracy of the overall DNA sequence, as well as fill in gaps found in the current “rough draft” sequence. All of the DNA sequence will be placed in the public domain (web-based databases) for researchers around the world to freely query, download, and analyze. In fact, researchers at ICR will be using the Neandertal DNA sequence in a variety of research projects investigating the role of the human genome in the creation model.

Evolutionists consider modern humans and Neandertals to be two distinct human species that separated from each other 35,000 to 800,000 years ago. However, within the recent creation perspective, Neandertals and modern humans are not really separate “species,” but represent different human gene pools in time and location.

Consistent with this idea, the genomes are proving to be quite similar. In fact, preliminary findings over the past couple of years support this interpretation, as a variety of genes have been characterized in the Neandertal genome with high similarity to modern human genes. These genes are associated with such traits as pale skin and red hair, type O blood, and high levels of linguistic and mental ability.2, 3, 4 Since evolutionary scientists considered these gene variants to be strictly associated with modern humans, it comes as no surprise that the evidence will once again force “re-explanations.”

The Neandertals essentially represented a unique ethnic group that is now gone due to the same factors that affect modern human populations—factors such as migration, mutation, and interbreeding. Neandertals represent a variant genome from within the created human kind. We predict that future analysis of Neandertal DNA sequence data will add confirmation to creation, but consternation to other origins models.

References

  1. Pennisi, E. 2009. Neandertal Genomics: Tales of a Prehistoric Human Genome. Science. 323 (5916): 866-871.
  2. Culotta, E. 2007. Ancient DNA Reveals Neandertals With Red Hair, Fair Complexions. Science. 318 (5850): 546-547.
  3. Lalueza-Fox, C. et al. 2008. Genetic characterization of the ABO blood group in Neandertals. BMC Evolutionary Biology. 8: 342.
  4. Krause, J. et al. 2007. The Derived FOXP2 Variant of Modern Humans Was Shared with Neandertals. Current Biology. 17 (21): 1908-1912.

* Dr. Tomkins is Research Associate.

Article posted on March 4, 2009.

This article was originally published March, 2009. "First Draft of the Neandertal Genome Sequence Released", Institute for Creation Research, http://www.icr.org/article/first-draft-neandertal-genome-sequence-released (accessed March 11, 2009).

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125 posted on 03/11/2009 1:23:39 PM PDT by GodGunsGuts
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