Romney's speech at CPAC

Politico ^ | 2/27/2009 | Mitt Romney

[sevenbak]

"The Pursuit of the Difficult"

Thank you all very much. It’s good to see all of you, and to be among so many friends. Being at CPAC feels a bit like coming home. Your enthusiastic send off three years ago propelled my campaign to the top of the pack. That status turned out to be temporary, of course. And when the journey was over, both Ann and I were filled with gratitude for your friendship and loyalty. It warmed our hearts, and we thank you. A lot of you have been asking how Ann is doing. And I’m happy to say she’s doing great.

There are so many conservative leaders here this weekend. I was looking forward to seeing Governor Palin again. There’s a rumor that she has been offered an 11-million-dollar book contract. My publisher has been talking to me about an 11-millon-dollar deal as well. I’m just not sure I can come up with that kind of money.

It’s an honor to be introduced by David Keene. His commitment to conservative principles has been tested and proven, in many venues and over many years. Some of you were here with Dave for the very first meeting of CPAC in the 1970s. You’ve been involved long enough to know that like every great cause in America, the conservative movement has periods of success and moments of setback. And in 2008, we had more than our share of disappointments. But we haven’t come to CPAC to dwell on battles we’ve lost. We are here to get ready for the battles we’re going to win.

As conservatives, we face this new year with resolve, but without resentment. Our country has a new president, and he has our prayers and best wishes. In the last eight years, we saw how a president’s political adversaries could be consumed by anger, and even hatred. That is not the spirit that brings us together. We want our country to succeed, no matter who’s in power. We want America to be prosperous and secure, regardless of who gets the credit. At our best, that has always been the mark of the conservative movement – in good times and bad, the interests of this great nation come first.

Right now the interests of America will depend in many ways on the decisions of President Obama. Those choices are his to make, whether or not we see eye to eye. We won’t be afraid to disagree with him when we must. And we won’t be afraid to agree with him when we can. One thing the President can know is that when he takes strong action in defense of the United States, we will stand by him. And we will always support the brave men and women of our nation’s military that he now commands.

We make these commitments out of principle, and our principles don’t depend on elections won or lost. Contrary to what you hear from some commentators on the left, the 2008 elections did very little to settle the most serious differences of opinion in American politics. Some of those issues were hardly debated at all in the fall campaign. As conservatives in opposition, we have a duty to press on …a duty to state our case with confidence.

Some critics speak as if we need to redefine conservatism. I think that misses the mark. America’s challenges are different from year to year, but our defining principles remain the same. Conservatives don’t enter each new political era trying to figure out what we believe. Facing new and complex problems, we find the answers in principles that endure. Ronald Reagan used to say that “the trouble with our liberal friends is not that they are ignorant, but that what they know is wrong. ” Conservatives don’t claim to know everything, but what we know is right.

Conservatives believe in settling great questions the way the Founders intended – especially where the stakes are the highest. Courts that have undermined the fundamental right to life have shown an equal disregard for the rights of property and the rights of religious freedom. We’ve even seen them extend rights to terrorist combatants who have killed Americans and who would like to kill many more.

In the way of judicial nominees, these next four years aren’t likely to be encouraging. But we conservatives stand for causes that are too important to allow unelected judges to force their own biases on an unwilling nation. We may not always win at the polls, but we believe in democracy …we respect the will of the people …and across this country, we will not stand idly by as liberal judges try to re-write the constitution and override democracy.

I’m often asked these days what Republicans and conservatives have to do to recover. And I’ll bet my answer is the same as yours. Our first concern isn’t a political recovery – it’s the recovery of our country.

We‘re at one of those rare moments in history, when the biggest tests come all at once. We don’t have the luxury of taking them on one by one. We have to get a lot of things right, and all at the same time. We’re in the second year of a major recession, and if we don’t make the right choices, things could get worse. Americans have already lost some 12 trillion dollars in net worth. And the pool of our nation’s investment capital has also shrunk by trillions of dollars.

The President has already moved to stop our economy’s downward spiral. Parts of the stimulus will, in fact, do some good. But too much of the bill was short-sighted and wasteful. Every single Republican in Congress voted in favor of a better stimulus plan, one that focused on creating jobs immediately. But Congressional Democrats couldn’t restrain themselves from larding up their bill with tens of billions of dollars for their political friends. Republicans wanted to stimulate the economy, Democrats wanted to stimulate the government. Conservatives in the House and Senate stood their ground and voted no—and they were absolutely right.

So far, the Administration has been unclear on what it will do to address the huge decline in the pool of risk and investment capital. These losses will be felt in businesses that don’t start-up and grow, and in jobs that don’t get created. To grow the pool of investment capital, the last thing you’d do is to raise taxes on investment, as the President has proposed. The surest, most obvious course is to rule out higher taxes on investment. I would propose going one step further. For all middle-class Americans, we ought to abolish the tax on interest, dividends and capital gains.

This economic crisis has proven that government has an urgent obligation to address some awful abuses we’ve seen in the financial sector, particularly in housing finance. Free markets, properly regulated and allowed to work as they should, have propelled America to be the largest economy in the world. For years, Washington politicians did nothing to prevent the abuses at Fannie and Freddie, and in some cases they encouraged those abuses for political gain. Let’s be clear on this point: conservatives favor clear, streamlined and up-to-date regulations and laws that let the economy work, but we will vigorously oppose those politicians who are poised to use their own failures as an excuse to undermine the free enterprise system.

I know we didn’t all agree on TARP. I believe that it was necessary to prevent a cascade of bank collapses. For free markets to work, there has to be a currency and a functioning financial system. But we can agree on this: TARP should not have been used to bail out GM, Chrysler and the UAW. And this is personal for me, I want the U. S. auto industry to succeed. But as some of us pointed out last November, that can only happen if its excessive costs and burdens are restructured. And concessions are going to be few and far between if bondholders and unions already have your money when the negotiating begins. The right answer for Detroit is this: Fix it first.

All of these measures are meant to confront the current economic peril. Properly guided, Washington could in fact speed the recovery. So far, some of the actions it has taken will help, and some will hurt. But we can be certain that the American economy will recover. The invisible hand of the market is more powerful than the lumbering machinery of government. In the final analysis, we know that the private sector – entrepreneurs and businesses large and small – will create the millions of jobs our country needs.

Earlier this week, the President addressed not only the current economy, but also his broader goals. I was pleased that he put healthcare, education, and energy on the agenda. The direction we take on these issues will profoundly shape the future of the nation. I’m afraid I know where the liberal Democrats want to take us. And as they try to pull us in the direction of government-dominated Europe, we’re going to have to fight as never before to make sure that America stays America.

President Obama was awfully vague about some of his plans, but I think I heard him say that government is responsible for educating a child from birth—from birth—to its first job. Universal pre-school and universal college. And there were hints as well of universal healthcare and a universal service corps. It all sounds very appealing, until you realize that these plans mean universal government. That model has never worked anywhere in the world. America is great because our society is free and the power of government is limited by the Constitution.

For the last several years, we’ve heard liberals moaning about the 700 billion dollars that have been spent over six years to win freedom in Iraq. They have now spent more than that in 30 days. And with a government almost 12 trillion dollars in debt, any unnecessary spending puts at risk the creditworthiness of the United States. If the world loses confidence in our currency, that could cause a run on the dollar, or hyperinflation that would wipe out savings and devastate the Middle Class. President Obama says he hopes to cut the deficit in half after four years—does that mean a deficit in 2012 of 600 billion dollars? No president should accept such a staggering deficit, much less hold it up as a national goal. This is the time to pare back government spending. It is not the time to fulfill every liberal dream and spend America into catastrophe.

Congressional Democrats are gearing up to take over the health care system. We need to advance a conservative plan – one based on free choice, personal responsibility, and private medicine; one that doesn’t add massive new federal spending. I like what I proposed in Massachusetts when I was governor. And even though the final bill and its implementation aren’t exactly the way I wanted, the plan is a good model. Today, almost every Massachusetts citizen who had been uninsured now has private, free-market coverage, and we didn’t have to raise taxes or borrow money to make it happen. We may find even better ideas in other states. But let’s make certain that conservative principles are front and center. A big-government takeover of health care is the next thing liberals are going to try, and it’s the last thing America needs.

What America does need is a commitment to reforming entitlements. I believe that Medicaid should be capped and put in the hands of the states; Social Security benefits for high income citizens who are now age 55 or younger, should grow with the consumer price index, not the wage index; and Medicare should be reformed with a dose of free-market reality. These and other reforms are essential, because if we stay on the same road, the next generation could see tax rates 50 percent higher even than ours – and that’s to pay the bills we’ve racked up for ourselves. Passing on that kind of debt to our children is not only fiscally irresponsible, it is morally wrong.

I was glad that the President said he favors charter schools. Did you hear what sound came from the Democratic side of the chamber? Crickets. I hope the President will join all of us to expand school choice, reward better teachers with better pay, raise teacher standards in academic subject-matters like math and science, and enable school districts to remove teachers that don’t make the grade. It is high time to put America’s kids first and leave the union bosses behind.

We and the President agree that America must act to become energy independent. But his cap-and-trade proposal is exactly the wrong way to go about it. It would tax American citizens and employers and send businesses and jobs to high polluting and high emitting nations like China. Any carbon plan has to be worldwide in scope: they don’t call it America-warming, they call it global-warming.

Let’s also be the voice that defends the rights of workers – against coercion and intimidation. The working people of this country should be able to unionize the way their fathers and mothers did – by free choice and secret ballot. The Democrats’ plan to take away those rights is an insult to the dignity and common sense of working people. It would be calamitous for the economy. I know that the Democrats want to pay back the union bosses for all the money they gave them, but they must not do it by selling out the American worker – and democracy.

America voted for change. America did not vote for a boat-load of new government spending programs that would guarantee higher taxes and high deficits as far as the eye can see and that would threaten our currency, our economy, and our future. We must be the alternative course. We can’t be that if all we say is no. Our plans must be clear, compelling, and first to the table. Our plans must have at least one common thread—they must make America stronger. Better education strengthens our kids; better healthcare strengthens our citizens; and bringing our budget into balance strengthens our economy and preserves our future. Today, as much as ever, conservative principles are absolutely essential to keeping America strong and prosperous and free.

With all that is happening here at home, there are some who have forgotten that we are at war, that Iran and its jihadist surrogates are killing our sons and daughters abroad, and hope to do it here. I am pleased that our troops will be coming home from Iraq. But let there be no confusion: it is in spite of Barack Obama’s stance on Iraq, not because of it, that the troops are coming home in victory!

President Obama is barely a month into his term, and, of course, his biggest decisions on national security are still ahead of him. His administration has won the favor of liberal commentators by pledging what it calls reform in the treatment of terrorist detainees. He’s also promised to close down Guantanamo, without giving the slightest indication of the next stop for the killers being held there now. That decision, too, has received the predictable applause from certain law professors and editorial boards.

But here’s the problem. That is the very kind of thinking that left America vulnerable to the attacks of September 11th.

This is not a law enforcement problem. It is the gravest matter of national security, with thousands if not millions of lives in the balance. The jihadists are still at war with America. Our government has no greater duty than a vigilant defense, and no greater cause than victory for America and for freedom.

I had no objection when Barack Obama decided to give his first TV interview to an Arabic broadcaster. But when he said that America in the past has dictated to the world, he was misguided and naïve. And the next time our president speaks to a foreign audience I hope he will remember this basic fact of history: America is not a country that dictates to other nations. We are the country that has freed millions of people from the tyranny of dictators. Never in the history of a world has a single country possessed such great power, and used it for such good purpose across the world, as the United States of America.

I believe President Obama was also mistaken in backing away from our commitment to missile defense. And if he calculated that Russia would respond in kind by showing a little restraint and good will, he quickly learned otherwise. All Russia did to return the favor was bribe Kyrgyzstan to shut down our use of its airports, closing access we needed for our troops serving in Afghanistan. Gestures that communicate a lack of resolve only embolden America’s adversaries. With Iran seeking nuclear weapons, with North Korea already nuclear and selling its technology to the Syrians, it is essential that we construct a missile defense, now.

A lot of you have the memory of coming to CPAC in its early days, when America had challenges so big that many in the world – and even a few in our own government – thought we were in decline. They doubted our ability to compete economically, to face down the dangers of the era, or even to defend our ideals. Today we’re hearing echoes of that era once again, from those who speak of America as if our day has passed.

Some of these critics never cared much for our belief that America occupies a special place …that there is work in the world that only we can do …and that Americans have the heart and the courage to get it done. But we know these things to be true. And to those who question the character of our country, including the new attorney general, let us remind them that America has never been, is not now, and will never be a nation of cowards.

I don’t deny that America’s challenges are great, or that overcoming them will require the best that we have to give. But I know as well that times of difficulty always bring out the essential character of our fellow citizens. When I was a boy, my dad used to say that the pursuit of the difficult makes you strong. Well, the pursuit of the difficult will make America strong. We welcome the challenge. It will call on us, once again, to draw on the incredible resilience, ingenuity, and faith of the free men and women of America.

We don’t get to choose the tests and trials ahead. But we’re entirely free, you and I, to choose how we will meet those tests. We will meet them as conservatives have done before. We will find strength in each other, and answer our opponents with good will and honest words. And we will go forward – confident in our beliefs, and certain of victories to come. "

Thank you. ####

[sevenbak]

I disagree completely.

The Mass era shows the country which is deeply divided that he can lead and lead conservatively even in a democratically controlled environment.

[Recovering Ex-hippie]

EXCELLANT POST.

[ansel12]

These guys forget that Romney is not all fantasy and speculation , he did have a shot at executive politics and it didn’t work out for him.

Romney’s term as republican (I think the fourth republican in a row) for Massachusetts did not gain him any glory, he left with low approval ratings and no chance of reelection.

[Peter ODonnell]

You said “I haven’t seen a politician from MA go after a woman like this since Teddy left Mary Jo in the car.”

That’s a memorable line. I haven’t heard one that good since Teddy got Mary Jo into the car.

[apocalypto]

Besides the point. The problem is that judges get away with making decisions as if they are dictators. They are often allowed to break laws and make laws. It has been going on for a long time and it is getting worse and worse and few care.

[ansel12]

I thought that Romney was a liberal that appoints liberal judges was the point.

[Norman Bates]

Nice pic!

[Waryone]

Maybe you ought to go look up the case instead of listening to lunatics comparing what Romney did to what they did to that poor woman Terri Schiavo.

No judge ordered Romney to do anything. No judge ordered anyone in the executive branch to do anything. The Mass court made a ruling about the cowardly dem Mass legislature which would never take it upon itself to rule for gays back then. Romney, a republican, realizing he could show the people of Massachusetts just how progressive (liberal) he really was, preempted a legislative response and a court ruling against the legislature and decided to bring on gay marriage for the world to see.

Anyone who tells you it was the sole fault of the courts is wrong. The court in Massachusetts by law is not allowed to legislate. The legislature was too scared to make gay marriage happen. Instead of forcing the legislature to vote itself or give the people the vote on the subject, Willard stepped in it and decided he would give Massachusetts and the United States gay marriage.

You can consider the truth to be stupid all you want, but that does not change the fact that it is true. Nor does it change the fact that time after time Romney has sided with gays against families, and abortion against families.

For you to believe that Romney is 100% better than Obama/McCain, you have to believe that Romney actually stands for something. I know that Slick Willard will become whatever he believes he needs to become. That means he can never be trusted. At least I know that McCain will always stab me in the back so as long as I face him, he’s not a problem. Romney will come along next to you and put the blade in your side. Coming or going, you’ll never know what hit you. Just ask what used to be the republican party in Massachusetts after he destroyed it. Just ask the family organizations in that state that had to work so hard against someone they thought they could trust.

He may have you fooled, but some will never be fooled.

[ansel12]

You think any of us who opposed Romney and Rudy would rather have Obama?

"Yes, I do. I have been told here several times that folks here are glad Obama won, rather than Romney or Gulliani." ============================================================

Darwin you are pretty new here and smell a little like a retread or a troll, you don't have many posts to look through so would you show us several of those posts to you where people say that they are glad that Obama won instead of Romney or Giuliani?

[apocalypto]

You can try to defend the judges all you want to but you are wasting your time. You sound like a liberal in disguise.

[ansel12]

Wow, you really are a retread troll and several times over.

I saw the post where you said you own a gun and I saw the post where you said you didn’t own a gun, I saw mostly pro abortion stuff, Christian baiting, baiting and flaming in general.

And this little gem of a post.

Tuesday, February 10, 2009 5:08:05 AM · 13 of 106
Darwin Fish to Jim Robinson

Quite frankly, if it wasn’t for the religion mods taking over the place, I would have contributed what my past amounts have.

Thousands.

Yes, I still lurk, and occasionally sign up and get banned.

[BarnacleCenturion]

Sorry but your facts are just wrong. You`ve either been deceived or you`re trying to deceive others.

[Darwin Fish]

???

[Darwin Fish]

And how about you?

[TomasUSMC]

Mitt blamed President George W. Bush for the Republican Party’s slow start in advancing clear alternatives to the stimulus package..........

That’s the fear. The fear is if all the banks start going under, -Mitt...............

Well, that’s precisely what Secretary Paulson and Chairman Ben Bernanke and people on both sides of the aisle fear. And you can’t be 100% sure that would happen but that’s what they fear. -Mitt

Soooo, Romney fears the banks going under and he blames Bush for not putting up a plan. But, Romney didn’t put up a plan, he just agreed with the FEAR.

Carter was a smart man too. But he was a hypocrite and full of f e a r. Just like Romney’s-for-killing-babies-then-not hypocrisy, and Romney’s fear. If he had as much courage as he had money, he would have spent more in the campaign and maybe won and at least not quit the day after saying he would not quit and then quit......but he had a fear of being a little less rich.

Former presidential candidate and governor Mitt Romney (R-MA) stood up to conservative critics of Secretary of Treasury Hank Paulson’s bailout plan, saying it was the right thing to do given the information that was available in September.http://www.businessword.com/index.php?/weblog/comments/2399/

Romney would have been better than obambi, no doubt. But then we would not have gotten our first Kenyan half black gay President.

Thanks for the links.

[Diogenesis]

"You can try to defend the judges all you want to but you are wasting your time. You sound like a liberal in disguise.

ROTFLOL. Actually he is correct and you RomneyBOTs are very wrong.

"Governor Mitt Romney, who touts his conservative credentials to out-of-state Republicans,
has passed over GOP lawyers for three-quarters of the 36 judicial vacancies he has faced,
instead tapping registered Democrats or independents -- including two gay lawyers who
have supported expanded same-sex rights, a Globe review of the nominations has found.
Of the 36 people Romney named to be judges or clerk magistrates, 23 are either registered Democrats
or unenrolled voters who have made multiple contributions to Democratic politicians
or who voted in Democratic primaries, state and local records show.
In all, he has nominated nine registered Republicans, 13 unenrolled voters,
and 14 registered Democrats."
- Boston Globe 7/25/2005

---

and this

Romney Rewards one of the State's Leading Anti-Marriage Attorneys by Making him a Judge
Romney told the U.S. Senate on June 22, 2004, that the "real threat to the States is not the
constitutional amendment process, in which the states participate,
but activist judges who disregard the law and redefine marriage . . ."
Romney sounds tough but yet he had no qualms advancing the legal career of one
of the leading anti-marriage attorneys. He nominated Stephen Abany to a District Court.
Abany has been a key player in the Massachusetts Lesbian and Gay Bar Association which,
in its own words, is "dedicated to ensuring that the Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court decision
on marriage equality is upheld, and that any anti-gay amendment or legislation is defeated."
- U.S. Senate testimony by Gov. Mitt Romney, 6/22/2004 P>

---

and then this.....

"Romney announces he won't fill judicial vacancies before term ends
Despite his rhetoric about judicial activism, Romney announced that
he won't fill all the remaining vacancies during his term - but instead
leave them for his liberal Democrat successor!
Governor Mitt Romney pledged yesterday not to make a flurry of lame-duck
judicial appointments in the final days of his administration . . . David Yas,
editor of Lawyers Weekly, said Romney is "bucking tradition" by resisting the urge to
fill all remaining judgeships. "It is a tradition for governors to use that power to appoint judges
aggressively in the waning moments of their administration," Yas said.
He added that Romney has been criticized for failing to make judicial appointments.
"The legal community has consistently criticized him for not filling open seats quickly enough
and being a little too painstaking in the process and being dismissive of the input of the
Judicial Nominating Commission," Yas said.
- Boston Globe 11/2/2006

And how about this?

“The Massachusetts Republican Party died last Tuesday.
The cause of death: failed leadership.
The party is survived by a few leftover legislators
and a handful of county officials and grassroots activists
who have been ignored for years.
Services will be public and a mass exodus of taxpayers will follow.
In lieu of flowers, send messages to New Hampshire Republican voters
warning them about a certain presidential candidate named Romney.”
- Boston Herald, 11/12/2006

"In 2006, while Romney was chairman of the National Republican
Governors Association - a group dedicated to electing more
Republican governors - his own hand-picked Republican successor
as governor lost badly to the Democrat, despite the fact that Republicans
have held the governorship in Massachusetts since 1990. Romney largely
ignored the Massachusetts elections and spent most of the time
during the campaign out of state building his presidential campaign.
He came back and publicly campaigned for the Republican candidate
the day before the general election!
“Locally, this is a rebuke to Mitt Romney and checking out within six months
after being elected and having accomplished almost nothing,”
[Jim] Rappaport [former chairman of the state Republican Party]."
- Boston Globe, 11/8/2006

[Diogenesis]

Action of Normal FReeper --- posts comments, urls, discussion, what politicians have done.

Action of RomneyBOT - Ignore Romney's past abdication to Democrats - check
Action of RomneyBOT - Ignore Romney's appointment of corrupt, liberal pro-criminal judges, overlooking GOP candidates - check
Action of RomneyBOT - Ignore Romney's usurping Mass Constitution - check
Action of RomneyBOT - Ignore Romney's wussiness to criticism using tears and fabricated 'religious persecution' - check
Action of RomneyBOT - Ignore Romney is the MSM's choice because they have files already prepared against him - check
Action of RomneyBOT - Ignore Romney's coverup of the "Big Dig" for donations - check.
Action of RomneyBOT - Ignore Romney's bankruptcy of Mass for his HillaryCARE=RomneyCARE - check
Action of RomneyBOT - Ignore Romney's refusal to let citizens vote on his socialist plans - check
Action of RomneyBOT - Ignore Romney's targetting of other GOP candidates - check
Action of RomneyBOT - Ignore Romney's decimation of Mass GOP and that he couldn't win Mass to Hillary -check
Action of RomneyBOT - Ignore Romney's real impact on Massachusetts - check
Action of RomneyBOT - Ignore Romney's federal bailout of the Olympics - check
Action of RomneyBOT - Ignore Romney's begging for a federal bailout of RomneyCARE - check
Action of RomneyBOT - Ignore Romney's use of fake law enforcement officers (caught in at least two states) - check
Action of RomneyBOT - Ignore TeamROMNEY's attacks on Gov. Palin and her children - check
Action of RomneyBOT - Use "Hate" as RomneyBOT Codeword to stop criticism of Romney - check

Romney: "I am never happier than screwing citizens and Republicans."

[Diogenesis]

[Diogenesis]

"Romney was Valedictorian, with Highest Honors, from Brigham Young University. He was awarded an MBA from Harvard Business School, where he was named a Baker Scholar, and a Juris Doctorate, cum laude, from Harvard Law School."

Romney ought try to get his money back from whatever "school" taught him.

When tested, ie. when Romney was Governor (a period in time when he should be EXAMINED)
Myth Romney also got a "C" rating from CATO. Not good. So the RomneyBOTs try to "spin history".
Note that liberal RINO Romney also betrayed President Bush (as TeamROMNEY would do in Election2008 to the GOP)
because Romney was also against the conservative tax cuts (note this also prove the RomneyBOTs wrong.)

Here are the facts from CATO.

"As U.S. real output grew 13 percent between 2002 and 2006, Massachusetts trailed at 9 percent.
* Manufacturing employment fell 7 percent nationwide those years, but sank 14 percent under Romney, placing Massachusetts 48th among the states.
* Between fall 2003 and autumn 2006, U.S. job growth averaged 5.4 percent, nearly three times Massachusetts' anemic 1.9 percent pace.
* While 8 million Americans over age 16 found work between 2002 and 2006, the number of employed Massachusetts residents actually declined by 8,500 during those years.
"Massachusetts was the only state to have failed to post any gain in its pool of employed residents," professors Sum and McLaughlin concluded.
In an April 2003 meeting with the Massachusetts congressional delegation in Washington, Romney failed to endorse President Bush's $726 billion tax-cut proposal."
[Cato Institute annual Fiscal Policy Report Card - America's Governors, 2004.]

[Diogenesis]

How RINO is ROmney?

As Gov of Massachusetts, Bishop Romney raised taxes on NH residents.

How Romney is that?