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To: betty boop
A bacteria is not capable of cognition.

But it is capable of enacting a proven program of adaptability to circumstances. One of those adaptations is a purposeful increase in the mutation rate by expression of error prone DNA polymerase. The mere existence of error prone DNA polymerase in addition to high fidelity DNA polymerase show that “random” has a purpose written into the bacterial genome.

And the purpose is continued survival of the species due to the strength of random variation to come up with novel adaptations that will be subject to selection.

596 posted on 02/28/2009 9:32:07 PM PST by allmendream ("Wealth is EARNED not distributed, so how could it be redistributed?")
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To: allmendream; Alamo-Girl; xzins; CottShop; hosepipe; metmom; Does so
A bacteria is not capable of cognition.

Are we really sure about this? And by the way, what do you mean by cognition?

You will not attribute any purpose in or to Nature; and yet cannot seem to avoid attributing "purpose" to the bacterium and/or its genome:

"But it is capable of enacting [implying freedom to choose an act?] a proven program [implying memory?] of adaptability to circumstances [non-local signals?]. One of those adaptations is a purposeful increase in the mutation rate by expression of error prone DNA polymerase. The mere existence of error prone DNA polymerase in addition to high fidelity DNA polymerase show that “random” has a purpose written into the bacterial genome."

In short, if I understand you correctly, the bacterium "chooses" to bump its mutation rate by increasing error-prone DNA polymerase in response to signals emanating from the external environment.... It seems to me local causation as governed by the physico-chemical laws would be insufficient to fully account for this behavior.

A more sophisticated (i.e., complex) crittur is the amoeba. The Czech physician Slavoj Hontela conducted an interesting experiment regarding amoeba behavior back in 2002. His paper was published at the Karl Jaspers Forum under the title: Is There an Essential Difference between the Human and Animal States of Consciousness? An excerpt:

It is obvious that each living organism standing at any step of the evolutionary ladder would respond to a sufficiently intensive stimulus, if it would be perceivable by the sensorial system of that organism and of course if the organism would be conscious, it means in the state of consciousness. The opposite state to the consciousness is unconsciousness. The stimuli might be produced in different ways : the change in the subject's circumstances is the most common....

The latter could be of mechanical or physical character (change in the light, sound, temperature, smell, vibration etc), chemical (change in the pH, effect of toxic chemicals, damaging radiation etc). In this conception a living Protozoic Amoeba fulfills all conditions to be conscious, to be in a state of consciousness....

How far this consciousness might be or should be considered as a "mental state" or a simple nerve-reflex structure is not easy to decide. Is it only the reaction to pleasant or unpleasant, useful or un-useful reaction ? Even in an Amoeba there are definitely signs of a memory presence. In regard that the memory is shown at the DNA molecule, in the process of "repairing" it might be presumed the memory proceeds the state of consciousness....

Let us to observe the behavior of an Amoeba in the microscope’s visual field. We can see there an Amoeba, of Proteus species, slowly moving by stretching out its pseudopodia, looking probably for food. We place now with a glass pipette close to her few powdered pigments of a dried Chinese Ink. The amoeba stretches one of her pseudopodia to a pigment grain closest to her (evidence of a chemotaxic reaction or ability !) and involves the grain into her pushing it down to the nucleus where the digestive vacuoles are present. It is certainly interesting that the pigment transported through the pseudopodia towards the nucleus, doesn't yet touch the nucleus capsule when obviously the Amoeba recognized the undigestibility of the Chinese Ink pigment, the further transportation in the direction to the nucleus stops and the foreign body is quickly pushed back and finally eliminated from the Ameoba's body....

From this observation it is possible to make already several conclusions:

1) The amoeba was able to recognize and approach the foreign body which might be its potential food,
2) A. was able to mobilize her pseudopodia giving them the appropriate message to approach this pigment and engulf it.
3) With a certain delay which was obviously necessary to process the information related to the characteristic of the foreign body and the realization that it is indigestible follows another set of messages and the pigment was eliminated....

We have to presume there were neuro-biological elements equivalent to those of more developed organisms and obviously there were present a appropriate number of genes.... In regard to the fact the elimination process of the pigment start[ed] already before the nucleus was involved, seems to support the hypothesis of involvement of the microtubules in the plasma....

The second phase of the observation experiment was even more interesting because it brought to the evidence the proof of the presence of memory. We have removed the pigment from the underlying microscopic glass dip, we put there a new drop of clear water and again placed there another pigment grain of Chinese Ink. The Amoeba stretched the pseudopodium to the closest pigment but did not touch it and, in contrary pulled back from the pigment grain. Obviously it preserved the memory for the identification of the indigestible pigment !

It would be an exaggeration to speak about the mind or thinking but the period of might be 30 seconds which were passed by between the pigment taking and eliminating it; evokes the impression that the Amoeba needed a certain time to process the obtained information, i.e., it was "thinking."...

SUMMARY: We have to presume that any living structure or system {organism} receives a set of genes and maybe of memes from its father and mother at the moment of birth. The ALLELE possesses even at this primary start of life the memory, which enables it to response to any changes occurring in its internal and external environment. With help of sensorial reception which could be at any molecular, neuro-molecular or sensorial organ level, the allele is bombarded by information which is deposited into its memory.... The latter are organized into different systems, used for further formation of reactions. It means the system is THINKING. This activity may be occurring in the brain, or in neuro-ganglia as it's in an insect....

Just to note: Thinking is purposive activity. It does not seem to require full self-consciousness; but an organism capable of sensation, awareness where memory is in some fashion present. If living organisms are information-processors (as increasingly it is thought), then we need to understand that "information" is the very opposite of a random distribution. And it did not itself arise from a "random process."

Through all of this, please recall that questions of purpose in nature entail questions of goals, ends — FINAL CAUSES. But science has dumped all final causes. So what are we talking about here?

I'll just leave it there for now, allmendream. Thank you so much for writing!

598 posted on 03/01/2009 1:57:11 PM PST by betty boop
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