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To: DoingTheFrenchMistake

The best scientific data indicates that the universe had a beginning. Logic dictates that something cannot create itself. This leads inexorably to a intelligent force beyond the confines of the known physical universe. Call it what you want, but it exists. It HAS to.

Given this fact, what purpose is served by intentionally ignoring, or actively arguing, against it? It is logically impossible and scientifically unsupportable to contend, as Carl Sagan famously did, that “the universe is all there is, and all there ever will be”.

Pressed hard, a Darwinist will relent concerning the origin of life, but the subtle subliminal argument made daily by advocates of Darwin is identical to Sagan’s ignorant assertion. Once this fairy tale is established, it is used to try and shame and intimidate “non believers” into conforming to the assertion that our lives evolved out of nothing, for no reason, and cannot hope for any lasting significance once the universe reaches its heat death.

Should a person ever truly believe this, for what reason would they want to draw another breathe?


25 posted on 02/22/2009 8:56:41 PM PST by ks_shooter
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To: ks_shooter

"It is logically impossible and scientifically unsupportable to contend, as Carl Sagan famously did, that “the universe is all there is, and all there ever will be”. Pressed hard, a Darwinist will relent concerning the origin of life, but the subtle subliminal argument made daily by advocates of Darwin is identical to Sagan’s ignorant assertion."
25 posted on Sunday, February 22, 2009 11:56:41 PM by ks_shooter

Bingo. It is a metphysical assertion and a priori truth claim of the kind Sagan & Co. protest when made by Christians or theists. There is no empirical event, lab experiment, or observation which could prove this claim, the central proposition of ontological materialism.

The modern physical sciences do not have the epistemological ability to determine with certain knowledge all of the things or beings which exist or the metaphysical structure of reality (such as claimed in obtological materialism either as a presupposition or declared metaphysical doctrine in the case of Sagan). That is ipso facto metaphysical in its very nature. It is unclear whether Professor Sagan understood what he was doing when he made such a claim. Based on other things he said and wrote one might conclude his background in philosophy was quite weak. It's such an obvious mistake.

But the advocates of scientism make these claims and errors all the time. The presupposition of scientific materialism usually just assumes this without reflection or critical examination. There simply is no epistemological foundation or any way to prove the claim that “the universe is all there is, and all there ever will be." Once that house of cards falls apart, the rest of the Weltanschauung of scientism gets pretty shaky.

31 posted on 02/22/2009 10:51:49 PM PST by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: ks_shooter

“Should a person ever truly believe this, for what reason would they want to draw another breathe?”

Because nothing really matters but the moment, nothing.

Oh, you can rail & cry over the past and hope for the future, but the only thing that should concern anyone is the now of life, live there be happy.


43 posted on 02/23/2009 7:25:52 AM PST by DoingTheFrenchMistake
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