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To: Plutarch

Maybe it’s finally dawning on them that there are huge loopholes within the system; both state and federal.


11 posted on 02/22/2009 12:32:22 PM PST by Cyropaedia ("Virtue cannot separate itself from reality without becoming a principal of evil...".)
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To: Cyropaedia
Maybe it’s finally dawning on them that there are huge loopholes within the system; both state and federal.

The huge loopholes are in the current President's head and agenda.
44 posted on 02/22/2009 2:08:25 PM PST by HighlyOpinionated (The Constitution & Bill of Rights stand as a whole. Remove any part & nullify the whole.)
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To: Calpernia; Fred Nerks; null and void; pissant; george76; PhilDragoo; Candor7; MeekOneGOP; ...
Maybe it’s finally dawning on them that there are huge loopholes within the system; both state and federal.

Without going into all the issues over the document itself, yeah, there is are loopholes in the Hawaiian Statutes you can drive a Mack truck through about birth documentation. The CertificaTION of Live Birth did not exist until Nov 2001, designed as a way to allow a requester quicker access to verification of their birth.



“This copy serves as prima facia evidence of the fact of birth in any court proceeding.” [HRS  338-13(b), 338-19]."


The way Hawaiian law is written -- you can be born on ANOTHER PLANET and if you have a single Hawaiian "parent" willing to claim you as their own, you can be granted a Hawaiian "birth certificate," become a US Citizen -- and by default, a NBC:

http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol06_Ch0321-0344/HRS0338/HRS_0338-0017_0008.htm
[§338-17.8] Certificates for children born out of State. (a) Upon application of an adult or the legal parents of a minor child, the director of health shall issue a birth certificate for such adult or minor, provided that proof has been submitted to the director of health that the legal parents of such individual while living without the Territory or State of Hawaii had declared the Territory or State of Hawaii as their legal residence for at least one year immediately preceding the birth or adoption of such child.

(b) Proof of legal residency shall be submitted to the director of health in any manner that the director shall deem appropriate. The director of health may also adopt any rules pursuant to chapter 91 that he or she may deem necessary or proper to prevent fraudulent applications for birth certificates and to require any further information or proof of events necessary for completion of a birth certificate.

What this all means is BHO could have been born in Japan on a shopping trip, at a home for runaways in Canada, or in Kenya on a visit to Obama Sr's old homestead and he could still get a document saying he was “born in the USA.”

As long as the birth mother (in this case) proved her Hawaiian residency and said "my child was born in Seattle, but by virtue of my state residency, I want the birth to show as Hawaii," -- POOF -- we now have a Hawaiian birth record for BHO.

I have read a lot on this whole issue and many point to the newspaper listing of his birth announcement.

Well, sorry folks -- that is a vanity listing submitted to the paper since only a few of those appear each day and they are dwarfed by the number of kids born in the islands.

Just like marriage news items are only a sample of all the marriages done. Furthermore, if it WAS used by Ann or her mother to acquire a Certificate of Late Birth or some other document, Hawaiian Rule 902(6) and others rules have provisions against "presumptive authenticity" of such a documents such as a newspaper clipping: Rule 902. Self-authentication. "Extrinsic evidence of authenticity as a condition precedent to admissibility is not required with respect to the following: ... (6) Newspapers and periodicals. Printed materials purporting to be newspapers or periodicals.

Local people interested in this issue in Hawaii have tried to find anybody who worked the hospitals back then in the delivery rooms to recall if such a birth was done.

The loophole in the law makes even the COLB a problem.

To fully find out what happened the state record will have to be opened to see if he was born in Hawaii and the court may have to demand that.

The COLB is built from source documents.

The doctor who attended the birth (or nurse who certifies from the delivery room or even a midwife in some cases) has to submit the paperwork to document the trail.

If he was born out of state and the COLB is by the mothers certification then that documentation would be in the record.

People have been trying every angle on this from talking to people who worked in the delivery rooms then to trying to access lists of who used the delivery rooms to even admission records or ambulance records to get to the hospital.

Right now nobody can find a shred to support the birth in either hospital of size there because partly of current privacy laws.

BHO in his books talks of a different form of the birth record because he relates of how it included his birth weight. The current COLB does not but 60s era COLBs issued then did include that data.

Trouble is if you request a copy today you only get the same info you see on the newer version and you will not for example see the birth weight given. And since you cannot be the witness at your own birth, you need a witness, preferably with an "attesting signature" to prove to the WORLD that you ARE who you say you are. There's none on the CertificaTION of Live Birth.

There is much more data in the source file at the state that the COLB is extracted from and that is the real data that needs to be looked at.

HOWEVER, after doing some research, I think the key to beating Hawaiian Statutes 338-13(b), 338-17.8, and 338-19 may be herein:
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol13_Ch0601-0676/HRS0626/HRS_0626-0001-0901.htm and
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol13_Ch0601-0676/HRS0626/HRS_0626-0001-0902.htm and
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol13_Ch0601-0676/HRS0626/HRS_0626-0001-0903.htm


62 posted on 02/22/2009 11:09:33 PM PST by BP2 (I think, therefore I'm a conservative)
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