Jews Check Armenian Genocide Stance

Jerusalem Post ^ | ALLISON HOFFMAN

[DoughtyOne]

Sorry, but I don’t buy it.  Actually, is we who do not buy it.  It was not a Turkish supporter who entered this thread and demanded we adopt their opinion on this matter.  If it had been, I would have answered in much the same way.  This is not a matter we have to consider at this time.  It has been close to 100 years, and if the United States doesn't cow tow to one side or the other in the next twenty-four hours, nobody will be harmed, and humanity will not be destroyed for all time.  This is not a matter of concience.  It is a matter of acting like an adult when the children in the room are jumping up and down screaming that life isn't fair.

I am not a PC person.  Actually, on this one you may be a lot closer than you think.  It's PC to jump on the bandwagon and make demands in deference to any other considerations.

A moral wrong is just that and not situational to political strategy, history or the bullying of special interest groups.  The only bullying on this thread, the only demands made, are being made by people other than the Turks.  We have 150,000 troops on the ground in Iraq.  The best supply route runs through Turkey.  I am not going to pick this moment in time to right a 90 to 100 year old problem.  Is Turkey today rounding up and slaughtering civilians in mass?  No.  For all intents and purposes, Turkey is governing in a reasoned manner.  So what is driving this effort?  You may wish to consider that.  Turkey is one of the few friends Israel has in the Middle East.  It is one of the few reasoned friends we have in the region.  To whose advantage is it, if Turkey is driven away from a relationship with the U.S. and Israel?

Are you positive you want to side with people who wish to destroy Israel's relationship with Turkey?

If the U.S. cannot stand up to hypocrisy and injustice in the world then we are done.  Has the U.S. stated that Turkish actions as they related to the Armenians around one hundred years ago were reasoned?  Good grief folks.  Get a grip!

[Canticle_of_Deborah]

One of my best friends is Armenian. His grandfather’s family was slaughtered by the Turks in the genocide.

This matter is not negotiable.

Change the words ‘Armenian Genocide’ to ‘Holocaust’ and see how far you get with your argument.

Some people are more equal than others.

[Yaelle]

I don’t get it. It was genocide, what happened to the Armenians. I am a Jew; what difference does it make? There have been other genocides in the world. Why would I want my tribe to be the “only victim”? This is stupid.

[DoughtyOne]

I don’t care if one of your best friends was a relative of one of the fifty million Chinese who died in the 1950s. I am not happy with what took place, but I am not going to force the United States government to come out with some declaration at this time.

As for your reference to the Holocaust, we were heavily involved in freeing the Jews subsequent to our finding them in the interment camps in Europe. It was that first hand involvement and the war crimes trials subsequent to WWII that caused the U.S. to adopt policies on the matter.

If this had been something between India and Pakistan, or China and Mongolia, or Georgia and one of it’s neighbors, we probably wouldn’t have taken a strong stand on those events either.

This isn’t a matter of some people being more equal than others. It is very much a matter of some people being more involved in the intimate details of others, than they were in the details of still others.

If you want to throw a hissy fit about this, go ahead.

[DoughtyOne]

I don’t think anyone here is trying to claim the Jewish Holocaust is the only one that should be observed. We were involved with rescuing the Jews in the interment camps in WWII. We also took part in the War Crimes trails after the war. So yes, we were involved to the point that we have a personal take on the Holocaust.

The question is, are we going to make public policy statements on every event between nations, or even internal matters of individual nations?

Where is our recent statement on the 20 million killed in Russia? Where is our recent statement on the 50 million killed in China? Where is our recent statement on the two million killed in Cambodia? Where is our recent statement on the 1 million killed in Vietnam?

Right now, people have a bur under their saddle, that Turkey should be outed for genocide. Turkey is Israel’s number one trading partner. Do you have any doubt whatsoever what group might want that to end?

Who wants the West alienated from Turkey?

You folks really need to think about global dynamics. This isn’t just about the Armenian call for condemnation of Turkey. I still say it has a great deal to do with destroying support for Israel and relations between nations.

[Canticle_of_Deborah]

You're the only one who is throwing hissy fits around here. Stop projecting onto the rest of us.

I think Iran has a problem with Jews. Since you seem to like this kind of strategy, maybe Obama shouldn't jeopardize relations with them by acknowledging the Holocaust.

[DoughtyOne]

You're the only one who is throwing hissy fits around here. Stop projecting onto the rest of us.  Seriously, is that the best you can do?  Read my comments and respond to them.  Otherwise you are just validating my comments, when you respond this way.

I think Iran has a problem with Jews. Since you seem to like this kind of strategy, maybe Obama shouldn't jeopardize relations with them by acknowledging the Holocaust.  So you're under the impression that our relationship with Iran is similar to our relationship with Turkey.  Well, I don't think you buy into that really.

Iran is developing nuclear weapons, and is intent on using them on Israel at it's first opportunity.  Tell me, does that strike you as similar to Turkey's relationship with Israel?

Turkey isn't developing nukes with the intent to do harm to the U.S.

Turkey's willingness to hold off on action against the Kurds helped the U.S. in Iraq.  It allowed our troops to stay south, and not get involved in the Kurdish area.  Allowing supply routes also helped us.  It helped save U.S. troop lives.  Is it your take that Turkey is on the verge of developing nuclear weapons and supplying that technology to terrorist groups?

Seriously, you know better than to compare Iran to Turkey at this moment in time.  Don't you?

[Lucius Cornelius Sulla]

There is an excellent chance that following your advice would result in the deaths of innumerable Israelis and American soldiers. Just how many of them are you willing to kill to satisfy your self righteousness.

[Canticle_of_Deborah]

You are really being a jerk tonight.

Goodbye.

[Canticle_of_Deborah]

It was sarcasm.

[DoughtyOne]

If you will come back and read this thread again, you will note that I have not denied the Armenian’s claims. I have not said that Turkey did not do it. I did not damn Armenians for taking Turkey to task from the Armenian region of the world.

I have stated what my thoughts on all this are, which you have also done.

You demand that I agree with you, and that our government should take action on this immediately.

And when I object and try to reason with you, you say that I am being a jerk.

Well, I don’t expect everyone to like or respect me. You disagree and are ticked off, and I accept that.

Take care.

[Yaelle]

OK, RD — I didn’t really read enough to understand the argument. I stand corrected. I was just showing some ignorance. I know these things can be delicate. So everyone knows this is genocide but it actually hurts Israel to offend Turkey. I did not get it. Sorry!

[DoughtyOne]

Well, I’m not upset with you. This is obviously an issue where folks get tightly wound. I just think there are more issues at play here than are generally being considered. And I don’t necessarily see this as some massive gap in ethics.

I know you’re a good person, and in fact accept that most of the folks who have discussed this matter with me on this thread are also good people.

You don’t have to be sorry. I don’t want anyone to be sorry here for expressing what they think needs to be said.

You take care. Have a good night.

[Yaelle]

No, I am not sorry for stating an opinion — yeesh, I’d be apologizing all night for all the things I write! I am sorry for being ignorant yet still posting about it. I am very pro-Israel but I really had not researched this issue. :0)

[DoughtyOne]

Well, I have a lot of respect for you. You take care.

[CAluvdubya]

"Sort of like how 911 happened without provocation from us. "

Look, we're talking about another topic. You have thrown this in although Turkey had no involvement in 09/11 whatsoever. That isn't right. It doesn't represent you well, and it is a destraction from an issue that is genuinely debatable. 09/11 in context with this matter, isn't.

Actually it was just a comparison meaning it doesn't always work to say/do nothing in hopes that you won't make another mad.

Look, I'm not asking for some special recognition and I don't agree with a national holiday or another country's flag being flown. I'm a US first person, as were my grandparents (even thought they both grew up in an orphanage). I only ask that the slaughter of Armenians be acknowledged. There are some that contend it never happened.

[a_Turk]

I think back to high school in Istanbul in the 70s. There were Turkish citizens of Armenian, Greek and Jewish origin in my class, as well as a bunch of other individuals of the Turkish Heinz 57 variety. I sat in the front row in class.. Unlike you’re used to in the USA, we had our designated room and the teachers would come by for their classes. Next to me sat an Armenian boy. He’s a cardiologist today - still lives in Istanbul.. My prom date, also Armenian passed away in the early nineties of a brain tumor. God was she smart. And good hearted...

My Armenian, Greek and Jewish friends in Turkey were not puppets. They were not hate ridden racists either. They were my friends, and still are. And they ever will be my friends.

Here are some words to live by: “I entertain no enmity nor ill will against a soul on earth, which I would not freely reconcile, should I find in him a corresponding disposition.”

[PapaBear3625]

One Washington-based Jewish community leader said Jewish organizations were unlikely to reorient their views and begin backing legislation to recognize the Armenian genocide, arguing that this would only make a delicate situation far worse.

So Holocaust-denial is OK as long as the victims of the genocide are not politically important, and those who committed the genocide are important to our political interests. Gotcha.

[DoughtyOne]

Thank you for your additional comments. It’s not going to help for me to make further comments, so I’ll just bow bout.

You take care.

[DoughtyOne]

I appreciate your comments. They confirm my suspicions as it relates to Turkey. We have some people who want to call today’s Turks on the carpet for something that took place three or four generations ago. The world has changed considerably in the last 100 years.

I’m not sure what you think of the Turkish actions against the Armenians 100 years ago. I’m not happy with it at all, and I wouldn’t be surprised to see you write you aren’t either. So what now?

You take care. I like the saying you finished off with. I agree with it.