Posted on 01/21/2009 10:57:50 PM PST by ReligiousLibertyTV
CHICAGO - Today, Judge Robert W. Gettleman of the federal U.S. District Court in Chicago ruled that a state law mandating a moment of silence in Illinois public schools is an unconstitutional endorsement of religion. He had previously put the Illinois Silent Reflection and Student Prayer Act on hold while he considered the case filed by an atheist parent on behalf of his daughter.
The Illinois General Assembly had passed the law to allow students the choice to simply reflect on the day’s activities or pray, and proponents argued that this did not compel religious practice. However, the court found that the intent of the law was to encourage organized prayer in schools, and pointed to arguments made on the Assembly floor equating the moment of silence with legislative prayers. The court also found that the law favored religions that practice silent prayer over those who do not.
“Students remain free to pray on their own, in a non-disruptive manner, throughout the school day,” ACLU lawyer Adam Schwartz said in a statement. “As Judge Gettleman recognized in his decision, public school students in Illinois do not require the permission of the General Assembly to engage in this constitutionally protected activity. ”
The court upheld the principle that students have a constitutional right to pray on their own at any time and that the government or the schools should not arbitrate when and how students pray.
I think I have explained why this matters twice now. My problem is socialist. My problem is not just wanting a teacher to lead a moment of silence, I want God in public view. I want a manger scene on public property. I want a Menorah on public property. Heck, if a atheist wanted to put an empty stand on public property, I would be all for it. I would see a Nation that is free to exercise religion. When you stop God in any form from being in public view, you are limiting the free exercise of religion and this is unconstitutional. This is my problem.
Now, allow me to ask you why does it matter if a teacher does lead a moment of silence? What does it hurt? Is this making you and your family go to church on Sunday? Is it endorsing a particular religion?
To establish a religion in this Country, Congress would have to pass a law that says the only legal Church is the Catholic Church (or whatever church or religion that they decided upon). They would ban all others religions and churches from the country and you would be required or strongly encouraged to attend this particular Church every Sunday. This would establish a religion.
Praying in school or in Congress does not establish a religion. It does not make me go to any church, but telling people that they can not pray, or put a manger scene up is limiting the free exercise thereof.
Here is the law of the land:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;
Allow me to explain: Congress (having the power to do so) can not pass a law that makes you and I attend any particular church or religion. And law makers can not pass law restricting people from the free exercise there of. It is just that simple people.
Our Constitution is being mishandled by atheist and socialist and this is my problem.
So what exactly do you want in the classroom to put God in public view? Images of Jesus/God hanging on the walls? A statue of The Ten Commandments on the teacher’s desk? Crosses at each student’s desk?
Ten Commandments have been removed from schools and court rooms. A lead prayer from the school officials have been removed. Manger scenes have been removed from public property. The act of telling people that they can not do this is unconstitutional. You can not restrict the free exercises of religion and none of what I mentioned above can establish a religion. Only Congress can establish a religion and they are restricted from doing so (they are also restricted from limiting the free exercise thereof).
How does it hurt you to respect a moment of silence?
I agree with all of that and I know what the Constitution says.
What I don’t get is your need to have a “middleman”, so to speak, tell the kids they can do what they already have a right to do.
A prayer is fine. Ten Commandments are fine. Menorah's don't bother me. If the school was full of satanic children, a pentagram would be fine. If the majority of kids were atheist, a statue of nothing would be fine. I don't care really. When you tell people they can not do this or that (in reagrds to religion), I see it as limiting the free exercise thereof. And restricting the free exercise thereof is unconstitional. It is just that simple. The Constitution is not hard to understand.
You still don't understand my position. I don't need a middleman, I need the right.
You have the right. The kids have the right. The Illinois law was stupid and useless. They didn’t need a law to tell them they could pray during school time. They had that right before the law was passed.
And I see what you are saying, but I am saying that we are losing our rights that have been bestowed upon us.
Without any kind of a fight or shot being fired, we are losing our rights. Aint that something?
I think you can still find Jan Kozak's book 'And Not A Shot Was Fired' on Amazon. This will explain who, what, where, and why this is happening. He is a Czechoslovakian defector. BTW: here is another defector who is worth listening too:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k6KUDv1wzraWhwlBt1 Yuri Bezmenov
What Bezmenov presents is exactly what our problem is. We need to educate each other so we can teach our children well. We need to teach them that most all of our news media only tells one side of the story. We must teach them that evolution is faith without hope. Teach them that what they learn at school may not always be worthy. Teach them that some of the movies from hollywood are propaganda. Teach them that political parties and judges on the bench are attacking their rights.
You see, I feel that the revolution has started long before I was born. We are long over due for a counterrevolution. This time, the battle is not on a battlefield. It is in our hearts and minds. In our children's hearts and minds. This is where the battle for freedom is today.
Our media, or learning institutes, hollywood have all been high jacked. These are all great propaganda machines that can change the hearts and minds of the people. This is where the Ideological Subversion lives. All we have to do is get the people to open their eyes and unplug the bananas from their ears. Watch the video above and you will understand that statement about bananas. ;-)
Anyhow, this is what I think is important to talk about.
OK, like it or not, a satanist, or a muzzy, or anyone I may or may not agree with has the same right as me. That is the right to choose my religion and be who I want to be.
My belief is that God gave us all free choice. Who am I to take that away? (I will say this though, if any “religion” performs violent acts upon others, then it no longer is a religion to me. It is now a criminal and falls under the law of the land; and in some cases I will consider it an act of war.) So, I do not believe in a theocracy. I am not willing to force my religion on others. Remember, the first gift is free choice.
Just because I am willing not willing to force my religion, this does not mean that I am not willing to stand up for my right to express my religion in a peaceful manner. And I should not be restricted from doing so. AND others should have the same right too. Again and again, the first gift is free choice.
I think free choice is one of many things that makes our Country a glorious place. When I see freedom of religion, I see us allowing God's will to be done. We have the freedom to choose here. People born in some Countries have to be of their fathers religion. We have the right to choose and go to God freely and I love that. That is what God wants. I think that if your religion is true, you would be willing to stake it against any religion or nonreligious group on the planet. I think we do that with Christianity in this Country.
We stack Yeshua against them all and I think around 80% of us will say we are Christian. A lot of us have chosen Yeshua and we love Him because He gives us hope. I feel His love in my heart and I am willing to put Him up against anybody, anywhere, anytime, bar none. And if that means allowing people to see and choose amongst the worst of ‘religions’, so be it because it allows people to have free will.
So, if my kid has to attend a school that prays to satin, I can change the channel. I can home school or move to one of the schools in the 80% of Christians district. Atheist can do the same. Some Christians do it already. They tell me to change the channel, if I don't like it. Well, if you don't like the prayer, or manger scene, I say don't look or listen to it. Change the channel. I have the right to freely exercise my religion in a peaceful manner and so do you. Put a empty stand up and be happy with your faith without hope. I am glad you have the right to choose. And I would see a free Country if we did this. I don't see a free Country when I see a a graduate who wishes to thank God at a ceremony being told he/she can't do so.
So, just like I will not force my religion on you, you don't force your non-religion on me and change the channel, Bub.
So, my kid can just bow her head and begin praying at anytime during the school day? When she get’s punished for “sleeping” or failing to pay attention in class - which WILL happen, then what?
I know, I will tell my kids that anytime you get called upon in class, just bow your head and pray - Judge Gettleman and the ACLU said it was okay to pray ANYTIME, on your own!
The teacher and the school board when they punish the entire class for being disruptive! Either way, you are going to have a problem.
Imagine this: when I was in school many years ago, every morning we said the Pledge of Allegiance to both the US and Texas flags. So, instead of saying this at a designated time each day, we decide that they can say it anytime they want. Do you think this might create some problems for the teacher? Do you think it might be disruptive to the rest of the class? Common sense, which isn’t that d@#n common anymore, says give the entire school a time to do that thing you do, so it doesn’t create a problem later!
Sorry, I was trying to say the following:
The teacher and the school board can and will stop an entire class from praying because they will all get into trouble for being disruptive. So, if you allow prayer at a certain time, or you don’t you are going to have a problem.
Which one should it be? And I have to say, like a few others, this sounds more like “restricting my rights to freedom of religion.”
Down here in Texas, we had a church group that was using the school lunch room as their sanctuary on Sundays. Someone filed a complaint that it was violating separation of church and state. It took three court rulings before a judge finally said, this is public property and if the public wants the land used for that, then so be it. He specifically stated, “...holding services in a public building does not establish a religion. But, denying the very people who paid to build this school the right to use the property as they see fit is expressly infringing upon their right to freedom of religion.”
Ok. Then piss and moan about it and don’t create a situation where you could confront the problem and start to change things. Just keep hoping that more government intervention into when and where and how and who will spontaneously sprout out of Washington to instruct everybody in their God given rights.
It is good to see that there is at least one Judge with common sense. Very, Very hard to find nowadays.
Glenn Beck was just talking about this.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.