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To: drellberg
First, Bush did not create this problem. Reagan did, Bush and Clinton made it worse, and unless I am mistaken this was not an issue that got all that much media attention or political capital until roughly 2005.

Reagan didn't create the problem, LBJ and the 1965 Immigration Act did. The 1965 Immigration Act: Anatomy of a Disaster

Reagan signed the one-time 1986 amnesty bill that was clearly a mistake in addressing the illegal alien problem. The USG estimated 1 million would apply and the real number turned out to be 2.7 million. Fraudulent documents were the rule. And the enforcement provisions of the 1986 amnesty were never carried out. Many of those same provisions can be found in the 2006 Hagel-Martinez bill and the 2007 McCain-Kennedy bill. Bush 41 signed the 1990 Immigration Act that raised the annual ceiling from 270,000 to 700,000 for 1992-94 and 675,000 afterwards (including 480,000 family-sponsored, 140,000 employment-based, and 55,000 "diversity" immigrants). Clinton was better than both Bushes on immigration enforcement.

The issue has been building since 1965 as the demographic impact of immigration becomes more and more pronounced. In 1965, Hispanics were 1% of the US population. Today, they are 15% and by 2050 they will be 30% and that is without an amnesty. Tancredo became more visible on the issue, but it was raised long before 2005. Rove, McCain, Graham, and others branded their fellow Reps who wanted the rule of law respected as nativists, xenophobes, and bigots. In the meantime 87% of the 1.2 million legal immigrants who enter this country annually are minorities and almost all of the 500,000 to 1 million illegals are minorities. Minorities and immigrants vote Dem.

My only point is that there is lots and lots of blame to go around. I’m not defending Bush. But I’m also unwilling to lay all of the blame at his feet. The venom and invective that is focused entirely on Bush is simply stupid.

You are making excuses for an indefensible position. Bush is the President. He was taking a position opposite most of his own party. He deserves most of the blame for dividing the party and making this a divisive issue.

Sensenbrenner: Bush Turned Back on Bill: Key House Republican Jim Sensenbrenner says Bush turned his back on immigration bill

Second, Bush’s recent efforts at enforcement have been quite effective, judging by demonstrated empirical evidence. This is the first real progress in a quarter-century. I would find those who hate Bush’s immigration policy more credible and sympathetic if they would give him his props

It is all relative. The reality is that it has had very little effect on illegal immigration, certainly less than the economy. You can expect a new surge as Obama, McCain, et. al. try again on amnesty. And the disintegrating situation in Mexico will add to those numbers. And nothing has been done with our legal immigration policies, which are far more insidious and difficult to change. We simply do not need 1.2 million legal immigrants a year, most of whom are uneducated and unskilled. They are going to be a net drain on our society and be of little use in making us competitive in the global economy.

And they will account for about two thirds of our 165 million increase in population over the next 50 years. In 1970, the US had a population of about 200 million. Today it is 305 million by 2050, it will be 439 million. Our pro-population growth immigration policies are going to have a major impact on virtually all of the major challenges facing this country, whether it is energy, infrastructure, the environment, entitlement programs, education, law enforcement, etc. And there are also the social consequences that may result from the Balkanization of this country along cultural and linguistic lines.

To say that Bush has come through with too little too late effectively invites the Obama Administration to drop the effort.

LOL. You are really naive. I am an immigration grassroots activist who has been lobbying on the state and national level on immigration issues. Obama has hired a former VP from La Raza to be his policy advisor [McCain had Juan Hernandez] and selected Napolitano to be his head of Homeland Security. Obama aided by folks like McCain are not going to be enforcing our immigration laws and they will push for an amnesty, which will destroy the country with the stroke of a pen. Not only will an amnesty legalize the status of the 12 to 20 million illegals already here, it will enable them to sponsor another 66 million to 100 million thru chain migration, i.e., family reunification.

Third, Bush and Rove are right that we must formulate immigration policy in ways that do not alienate Latinos, Asians and other demographic groups. Our immigration policy can not be punitive. It must be hopeful.

Give me a break. Punitive? Since when is enforcing the law punitive? Reps can't play identity politics like the Dems and pander to various groups. McCain, aka the Amnesty King among immigration activists, was the perfect candidate for those moderates advocating a policy of outreach to minorities. Latinos voted 70% to 30% against him. The reality is that even if McCain had received 70% of the Latino vote, he would have lost. Rove and Bush are wrong on immigration, substantively and politically.

The Republicans’ Hispanic Delusion Amnesty is not just wrong in principle, it’s bad politics.

Fourth, everyone wants their own agenda items. I want the war prosecuted well and with no holds barred. You may want immigration reform. Others might want lower taxes. Bush’s popularity gave him virtually no political capital. Let’s be real.

Yes, let's be real. There are only two issues that can destroy this country: immigration and the entitlement programs. The real problem with Bush was his inability to articulate and defend his positions. He lacked vision. And he was beset by issues like the WOT, Katrina, the collapse of the housing bubble, etc. that had him fighting fires and not focussing on the really big, long term issues affecting this nation. He became reactive rather than proactive.

34 posted on 01/17/2009 9:09:28 AM PST by kabar
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To: kabar

Kabar:

You clearly know your facts; as I have said, I am not in the Bush camp on immigration (though I am obviously not as passionate as you); and as such, I am reluctant to push you. But since you clearly have such a good grasp of the facts, and since immigration is the issue that vexes folks here far more than any other, let me ask three questions:

1) Again, besides Tancredo, who among Republicans was pushing this during Bush’s first term?

You don’t mention anyone other than Tancredo, and the link you provide is to 2006, after the Republicans had lost control of both the House and Senate. I just want to press you on this ... If no one in the party but Trancedo was making this an issue, then how is Bush the sole bad guy?

2) I read that more than 1 million illegals have left in the short time that enforcement has been stepped up; and I read that the check that employers must now make is both simple and effective. So why are these efforts so deficient?

3) My own not-all-that-well-informed position is that we must secure the borders first and step up internal enforcement, and then I’m willing to discuss anything, including amnesty; but the former must completely precede the latter, because no immigration policy is credible unless enforcement is secure. Would you consider this a conservative position?

Thank you in advance for your response.


37 posted on 01/17/2009 9:28:11 AM PST by drellberg
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