Posted on 01/14/2009 9:18:13 AM PST by NormsRevenge
Sacramento - --
Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, whose budget already makes dramatic cuts in education, is proposing to withhold billions of dollars from schools that were guaranteed by a measure approved by voters two decades ago.
School officials and education advocates railed Tuesday against Schwarzenegger's proposal, which would go into effect after 2010, arguing that it would make permanent reductions in school spending that would eliminate programs and increase the size of classes.
"The vast majority of the education community in California believe that we're underfunded already," said Nancy Waymack, a policy director for San Francisco's public schools. "So when the state defers money, that's one more year that we don't have to spend on our students. If they're never going to pay it back, then that just makes the picture even worse."
But Schwarzenegger's finance officials say the administration is simply abiding by the rules of Proposition 98, a 20-year-old initiative that sets minimum education funding obligations for the state.
"We don't think this is a gray area," said H.D. Palmer, a spokesman for Schwarzenegger's finance department.
At issue is which Prop. 98 formula should be used to set base school funding, a calculation that is dependent largely on the state's revenue.
(Excerpt) Read more at sfgate.com ...
considering dang near half the budget goes to education..
starnge they didn't use the word 'raid'.
It is a shame that teachers can not work a full year like the rest of us working stiffs.
In my grandsons school, they let the little crumb snatchers out 2 hours early every Wednesday, and 8 times a year there is “late start Monday”, where school opens an hour late. School closes end of May and opens again in August.
Can you imagine an emergency room at a hospital telling the customer, “this is late start Monday, so the nurses will be late getting to you”. or “Darn, too bad you did not come in at noon. On Wednesdays, they go home early.” “It is a shame you had the accident in June, the nurses will be back in August.”
.....Bob
I told her that I wish I could give her permission to explain to them that they are completely wasting her time and taxpayers money. Then she should flip them the bird and walk out.
Her mother would lose her mind (which is why it is fun to think about).
Because I work in a California public school, I can tell you that the early out days and late start days are used to bring teachers and staff up to speed with the avalanche of requirements dictated by the county, state and federal governments. Teachers are overwhelmed and depressed by the demands made on them outside of simply teaching students - many of whom do not speak English.
Also, many people do not understand that, though teachers receive paychecks during the summer, they are only paid for the number of days they work, as dictated by their contracts. Many teachers also attend additional training during their time off, (in order to better jump through the hoops that county, state and federal laws and regulations require).
I have thin patience for the California State government and think they are doing an outstandingly terrible job, but do not think teachers, (as individuals - not the union), should be faulted.
OK by me. Our kids are either homeschooled or sent to a private Christian school.
Even better would be a rebate of my property taxes.
OK, Forever, assuming you’re not a troll, please provide this very skeptical Freeper your personal opinion about some matters. First, for background, I live in San Diego county and, while we live in a “good” school district, all three of our children have been educated either in a private Christian school or homeschooled.
On to my questions:
1) The state budget per student is something like $11 or $12 K per year, but I understand only 55% goes to the school itself, the rest going to the district and the state. Do you know any more about this?
2) You mention that state requirements for teachers are burdensome. My children’s school is independent and doesn’t need to report to anyone except the parents. Does it seem extremely efficient to get rid of districts and the state, and let schools operate on their own, much like independent private schools?
3) Us conservatives who monitor these things realize that the lack of discipline in schools is rampant, and in teachers’ defense, we know that they are not allowed to discipline. This was not always the case, but many years ago, the ACLU succeeded in some court cases to giving disobedient students legal rights; meaning that a gym teacher couldn’t grab a wretched 11-year old by the ear and take him to the princpal’s office, to be sent home with a furious mother, because now the kids had “rights” including counsel and to be “innocent until proven guilty.” I couldn’t raise my children that way, and no school can run that way. Do you agree this is a problem? Do I understand the problem correctly?
4) Do teachers’ unions care more about the education of children or job preservation for their members?
I think you can see why I pay for my children’s education twice (taxes and tuition) and don’t entrust them to your colleagues. First, because I don’t trust them. Second, I won’t give them up, for the best 7 hours of the day, to leftist ideologues.
OK. Your turn.
“The vast majority of the education community in California believe that we’re underfunded already,”.....
Underfunded for what?....they still can’t add 2 and 2 no matter how much money you throw at a crappy education system!
Sorry, but your argument doesn’t wash with me.
In private industry, you have the very same problems as teachers do. If you are a photographer, the job doesn’t end with the picture being snapped. You have paperwork to fill out, photos to edit, cameras to clean, advertising, meeting with clients, and the never ending list of non-photography tasks.
Teachers are compared to the nursing profession because of the schooling required, the professionalism, and the ongoing training to keep their skills current. Amazingly, the salary’s paid to both teachers and nurses are about the same, but the nurses work a full year while teachers work roughly 9 months a year. How do the nurses keep their skills up, do the paperwork and continue to provide quality care? By dedication to a good work ethic. Teachers seem to feel that if uncle sugar gives them more money they will perform better. That is not how it works in the real world.
As to the contract, I know you are filling the contract hours, but I maintain that the contract hours should be raised to 2080 in a year, like the work year for everybody else.
Yes the union is at fault, but the teachers have to take some of the blame. After all, they pay the union to represent them.
.....Bob
Privatize. This will maximize the options for the students, and increase the potential reward for teachers that produce good results (and yes, penalize those teachers that don't teach).
“It is a shame that teachers can not work a full year like the rest of us working stiffs.”
My wife is a teacher, and she doesn’t get paid in the summer. It’s no “shame” to be a teacher, it’s very hard work, with long hours.
She is also a volleyball coach. During volleyball season she gets to school at ~6:30am and doesn’t get home until 7:30pm. After dinner she grades papers. Not only are her weekdays full, but she is gone many weekends at volleyball tournaments.
It’s a thankless job that deserves more respect then calling their workload a “shame”. If you don’t like working a full year, get a different job. My dad is a farmer, and grows hay only in the summer. If you told him “it’s a shame that he doesn’t work a full year”, he’d kick your ass.
Hey Nancy, I believe that magic Unicorns crap Skittles....
L
One by one now...
How is using my tax money to teach mush heads to play volleyball going to help society?
Although unrepentant, I will give you the “shame” remark, and rephrase my sentence.. It is too bad that teachers can not work a full year like the rest of the schmucks in the work force.
Hats off to your dad, he provides a great service to society. My brother in law was a lobster fisherman, and worked the season (if I remember it right 6 weeks in early spring and 6 weeks in late fall) and had to make his money last for the rest of the year. But we are not talking about farmers or lobstermen, we are talking about people with jobs that do not depend on the weather, like nurses, teachers, bankers, and yes, even government officials. They are required to work the year around. But teachers take the summer off so the little tykes can help mom and pop bring in the crops. I would bet 99% of today’s kids don’t know which end of a cow produces methane.
....Bob
BOTH ends produce methane, BTW.
Perhaps they need to deal with the structure of the educational establishment.
Here in Houston, HISD has FOUR other employees for every classroom teacher. And as it takes months to get anything fixed, or to get needed supplies, those FOUR other employees are not janitors or supply people.
They’re ADMINISTRATORS. In my wife’s middle school, there are three layers of administrators between her and the principal. And what do they do ? They spend there time making up more crap work for the teachers to do, and thinking of more ways to establish the school as a damn community service center - as opposed to a school.
And before you complain about teachers’ time off, you might want to think where it’s going. All those “early days” and “late start” times are so the administrators can have time to hold the teachers in stupid meetings where they put a new coat of varnish on old discredited educational ploys, like “English As a Second Language” and using “Whole Language” as a method of teaching reading instead of phonics.
California could CUT its education budget 50% and do a BETTER job - if it was the right 50%.
Fire the administrators.
Twenty years is not long enough to deliver the delusional promises?
I'd love to see a chart of total annual educational spending each year, AND the corresponding studend test scores, AND the number of employees in the educational system.
It should embarrass even the most shameless tax waster!
Lame.
Lame lame lame comparison.
Your dad isn't constantly whining about not getting enough tax money. If he did, millions of us would kick HIS ass!
This thread has taken an unexpected turn. It’s the pro-teacher posters vs. the anti-teacher posters. And although I have a teaching credential in math, chemistry, and physics - I have to side with the anti-teacher group.
I think the frustration with our education system as a whole is manifesting itself with people putting the blame on the teachers. Although teachers did not create the problem, many of them are not part of the solution either. IMO, someone who works in a school and sees the liberal ideology and the hypocracy there and stays BECOMES part of the problem. Someone who doesn’t even see it has always been part of the problem.
My credentialing classes were about 90% liberal indoctrination theory. Very little was about educating students other than how to brainwash them to the liberal point of view. Academics were not that important. I noticed this also in 2 states and 3 different schools. Academics - as it used to be in the good ‘ol days that made us into a power power - isn’t even on the agenda.
One could say that an employee isn’t responsible for the company it works for. However, if an employee stays with an inept, incompetent company because their salary and pension are more important than character and values - then they need to shoulder some of the blame.
I’m in CA. The public high school in my suburb only offers 4 or 5 classes a day. My teen-aged babysitter’s schedule is something like: social studies, “volunteering,” computers, and then “teacher’s aide.”
The Juniors and Seniors are released at 11 am twice a week and go work at Target. And I believe every child in the school district is released early on Wednesdays. Seriously.
My children attend a Christian K-8 school and will attend a Christian High School when they are old enough (which offers 7 academic classes every day, with no early dismissals).
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.