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You're missing the point. I'm saying the document in question is a birth certificate, in its general popularly understood meaning. A document issued by a government agency that certifies the facts of birth. That it meets the legal requirements of a birth certificate and is legal proof. Arguing about different forms and titles doesn't change that. Whatever other forms there are than that one, whatever their precise titles, *that one* is a legal birth certificate.

You're missing the point. They are two completely different documents, one is the actual birth certificate, the other is a short form abstract not necessarily based on the original source document, considering amendments that could be made to the original. The short form does NOT verify the authenticity of the original birth certificate and does not contain the exact details of the birth which can be corroborated. They do not carry the same legal weight and the short form IS NOT a birth certificate. It is an ABSTRACT in lieu of the ORIGINAL BIRTH CERTIFICATE, per the law.

For example, the Department of Hawaiian Homelands requires the original long form birth certificate to prove Hawaiian status:

http://hawaii.gov/dhhl/applicants/appforms/applyhhl

In order to process your application, DHHL utilizes information that is found only on the original Certificate of Live Birth, which is either black or green. This is a more complete record of your birth than the Certification of Live Birth (a computer-generated printout). Submitting the original Certificate of Live Birth will save you time and money since the computer-generated Certification requires additional verification by DHHL.

The US Passport Office does not accept some short form abstracts, to prove citizenship:

http://travel.state.gov/passport/get/first/first_830.html

*A certified birth certificate has a registrar's raised, embossed, impressed or multicolored seal, registrar’s signature, and the date the certificate was filed with the registrar's office, which must be within 1 year of your birth. Please note, some short (abstract) versions of birth certificates may not be acceptable for passport purposes.

Further, the State of Hawaii allows/allowed for out of state births to be registered in Hawaii up to one year after the birth, which would call into question the credibility of the original birth certificate. Obama's sister was born in Indonesia but has a Hawaiian birth certificate.

You mean "generally popular liberal opinion"..funny how liberals care about the law when it comes to interrogation but want to use "generally popular opinion" to solve a constitutional issue.

"You're missing the point. They are two completely different documents,..."

Nobody is disputing that they are different documents.

"...one is the actual birth certificate, the other is a short form abstract not necessarily based on the original source document, considering amendments that could be made to the original. The short form does NOT verify the authenticity of the original birth certificate and does not contain the exact details of the birth which can be corroborated. They do not carry the same legal weight and the short form IS NOT a birth certificate. It is an ABSTRACT in lieu of the ORIGINAL BIRTH CERTIFICATE, per the law."

No. It is legal, prima facie proof of the facts on it. It does carry full legal weight. From the front of the certificate, "This copy serves as prima facie evidence of the fact of birth in any court proceeding."

"For example, the Department of Hawaiian Homelands requires the original long form birth certificate to prove Hawaiian status:"

Already discussed and debunked. The "status" in question isn't identity or being born in Hawaiian. It is having a certain degree of native Hawaiian blood. It's not that won't take the birth certificate, it's that proof of ancestry is ALSO required FOR THIS PROGRAM. It is not a comment on the legal validity of birth certificates.

"The US Passport Office does not accept some short form abstracts, to prove citizenship:"

But this isn't one of those forms.

"Further, the State of Hawaii allows/allowed for out of state births to be registered in Hawaii up to one year after the birth, which would call into question the credibility of the original birth certificate. Obama's sister was born in Indonesia but has a Hawaiian birth certificate."

Also previously discussed by others. If true, and if it applied to Obama's circumstances, things that aren't given, who says it is going to lie? You mean "generally popular liberal opinion"..funny how liberals care about the law when it comes to interrogation but want to use "generally popular opinion" to solve a constitutional issue.

This sort of reminds me of what it's like to give blood.

I can show up at any blood bank and state I'm eligible to donate.

I am required to first read a book of literature stating guidelines and restrictions on who can donate blood.

I then must sit down with a nurse/phlebotomist who will check my temperature, pulse, blood pressure, and hematocrit, or blood iron content (which must be at least 12.5).

I then must privately answer a series of questions determining my health and eligibility.

I then must sign a form stating that I am eligible to donate and that my blood is safe for others to use.

I then go through the donation process: they stick a needle in my arm and withdraw a pint of blood.

When the process is finished, they give me a slip of paper with callback instructions and a number to call if I decide my blood isn't safe to give after all (if I suddenly come down with a virus that I'd been incubating or if I suffer a pang of conscience that I wasn't completely honest on the health questionnaire).

Of course I also consent to have the blood sample tested anyway.

After all of that, my blood is tested and labeled before being given to those who need it.

Only cytomegalovirus-negative people ("CMV negative") donors may have their blood used for infant transfusions.

All CMV-negative eligible donors are donors, but not all eligible donors are CMV-negative.