” Yet one would think the confederate holy trinity walked on water. You want to hold Lincoln up to the racial standards of today? Fine. But do it to the rebel leaders, too”
I`ve never ONCE defended inequality as opposed to those who errantly state Lincoln was not a supremacist who engaged in propaganda and political machinations for only one purpose, to win a war and create a Clay/Keynes central state.
“And that’s exactly what it was”
Indeed, emancipation was in fact a war propaganda measure to “ be decided upon according to the advantages or disadvantages it may offer to the suppression of the rebellion.”
His war strategy guaranteed the North to appear as liberators not only domestically but in Europe also thereby winning the propaganda war.
Salmon Chase, Abe`s Treasury Secretary on the emancipation propaganda strategy, “The proclamation has no constitutional or legal justification, except as a military measure,”
“Try quoting the letter in context, and include the whole thing. Including the line that Lincoln closed with...”
I`ve already quoted extensively his personal views and held beliefs in white supremacy and his political expediency of using the emancipation as war propaganda and feel that further quotes and citations is irrelevant to blind-faith revisionists such as yourself.
” Lincoln’s views were head and shoulder above Lee or Davis”
I`d say a hair, not a head. Even during the outbreak of the civil war Abe stuck to his policy before his war emancipation propaganda gambit. He countermanded orders by Union generals to free slaves.Gen. Framont in Missouri declared all slaves to be free, Abe immediately canceled the order.Gen. Hunter did likewise, Abe countermanded immediately. An irate Congress then only consisting of Northern States passed the Confiscation Act, freeing all slaves who`s owners dared to declare secession, Abe refused to sign the Bill until amended and then only signed it reluctantly stating his dissatisfaction and did not faithfully enforce either of the Confiscation Acts.
” It removed the Fugitive Slave laws from the picture.”
The same laws that Lincoln enforced faithfully to the point that Washington DC jails were filled with blacks. Abe felt the pressure from the abolitionists and did waht was politically expedient at the time, urging the United States to formally recognize the black republics of Haiti and Liberia with the object of removing blacks from the U.S.
“So you say now with 20/20 hindsight”
Only about 1/4 of white families in the South had direct connections to slavery so had no vested interest in the exercise. Agitation from the North incited fear as the South recalled Haiti and the New York riots.
Economically it easier to pay a person for their labor rather than paying for their well being, health, housing,etc. In essence slavery was economically untenable.
” One reason why we know this is that Lincoln DID propose compensated emancipation on seveal occasions and was met with a deafening silence.”
Not true:
Congress, 2nd Session, Public Laws of the United States 1861-1862, XII, p. 378.
On the contrary, once elected Abe was willing to sign an amendment sponsored by Sen. Crittenden allowing the institution of slavery, against federal interference, in those places where it was already established and Abe stated he would endorse it if it would restrict slavery to the states where it was already established.
Abe, in keeping with his supremacist policy, and Congress were willing to spend whatever it took to send them all home,whether it was the Chiriqui Resettlement Plan, Haiti, Liberia,etc.
” There is no right to unilateral secession. The right to secession is not defined in the 10th Amendment. Habeas corpus was suspended through constitutional means, and was suspended by Jeff Davis as well. And your comments about war crimes are idiotic, to put it mildly.”
No prohibition of secession exists in the Constitution.
Declaration of Independence describes the States: “ Free and Independent, they have full Power to levy war and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States, may of right do.”
Also: “ whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. “
Lincoln: “Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up, and shake off the existing government, and form a new one that suits them better.”
Hamilton:” To coerce a State would be one of the maddest projects ever devised. No State would ever suffer itself to be used as the instrument of coercing another.”
Before 1868 Americans were State citizens and not citizens of Washington D.C.
Congress the was not in session and Lincoln usurped all powers not delegated in the Constitution, including the power to suspend habeas corpus. In Ex parte MERRYMAN the USSC overruled the usurper YET the usurper IGNORED the Constitutional ruling !!!
You obviously don`t know what your talking about.
What`s a war crime? How about burning large southern cities to the ground, looting and pillaging.
Again, you`re dumb as a stump and the typical usurper apologist.
OK, for the record are you prepared to state that when if comes to vile racists then Lee and Davis and Jackson were as bad if not worse than Lincoln?
Indeed, emancipation was in fact a war propaganda measure to “ be decided upon according to the advantages or disadvantages it may offer to the suppression of the rebellion.”
As a 'propaganda' measure it sure was a success. Hundreds of thousands of slaves were able to flee their former masters, secure in the knowledge that they could not be returned to bondage.
His war strategy guaranteed the North to appear as liberators not only domestically but in Europe also thereby winning the propaganda war.
It had that additional affect. Once the Emancipation Proclamation was released it killed forever what slim chance of European intervention still remained. Great Britain was not about to align itself with a cause dedicated to the preservation of slavery and the other European powers weren't about to jump in without Great Britain.
Salmon Chase, Abe`s Treasury Secretary on the emancipation propaganda strategy, “The proclamation has no constitutional or legal justification, except as a military measure,”
Actually it was Lincoln writing to Chase who wrote those words. And he was commenting on Chase's suggestion that the Proclamation be applied to all the states. The quote, in context, goes: "Knowing your great anxiety that the emancipation proclamation shall now be applied to those certain parts of Virginia and Louisiana which were exempted from it last January, I state briefly what appear to me to be difficulties in the way of such a step. The original proclamation has no Constitutional or legal justification, except as a military measure. The exemptions were made because the military necessity did not apply to the exempted localities. Nor does that necessity apply to them now any more than it did then..."
The Emancipation proclamation was a war measure. It drew it's authority from the Confiscation Act of 1861. It could not be applied to those areas not in rebellion. To free the slaves in those areas, in fact to end slavery throughout the country, required the Constitutional amendment that Lincoln later fought for.
I`ve already quoted extensively his personal views and held beliefs in white supremacy and his political expediency of using the emancipation as war propaganda and feel that further quotes and citations is irrelevant to blind-faith revisionists such as yourself.
You pick and choose quotes out of context to support your agenda. All to hold Lincoln to standards that your own Southern heroes could never measure up to.
I`d say a hair, not a head.
Of course you would say that. You have nothing to back up your claim with, but you would say that.
Even during the outbreak of the civil war Abe stuck to his policy before his war emancipation propaganda gambit.
It's called following the rule of law. Like it or not, federal law required that runaway slaves be returned to their owners, even if those owners happened to be supporting the Southern rebellion. Local commanders had no authority to overturn the law. So of course Lincoln was forced to countermand their orders.
The same laws that Lincoln enforced faithfully to the point that Washington DC jails were filled with blacks.
I'll pass on asking you for your source that "Washington DC jails were filled with blacks" and merely point out that Lincoln could not legally decide what laws he would enforce and what he would not. Congress would have to repeal the law first.
Only about 1/4 of white families in the South had direct connections to slavery so had no vested interest in the exercise.
In some Southern states that ratio approached 50 percent. And many of the non-slaveholders worked in support of the slave holders. Finally, there was the mere fact that slavery set the poorest white man head and shoulders above the best treated slave. A situation that would go away with slavery.
Economically it easier to pay a person for their labor rather than paying for their well being, health, housing,etc. In essence slavery was economically untenable.
Again you say with 20/20 hindsight. I would love to see you come up with a quote from any of the Southern leaders who support your position.
Not true.
True. See Lincoln's comments on the Delaware draft of a compensated emancipation bill in November 1861. See his Message to Congress in March 1862. See his Preliminary Emancipation Proclamation issued in September 1862 and his annual message to Congress in December of that same year. The evidence is there if you were interested in finding it.
No prohibition of secession exists in the Constitution.
Yes it does. As the Supreme Court found in December 1869.
Declaration of Independence describes the States: “ Free and Independent, they have full Power to levy war and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States, may of right do.”
And the Constitution says otherwise. Last time I checked the Constitution is the basis for out laws, not the Declaration of Independence.
Lincoln: “Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up, and shake off the existing government, and form a new one that suits them better.”
Lincoln was talking about rebellion. Which is what the South tried and which is what the South lost. Badly.
Before 1868 Americans were State citizens and not citizens of Washington D.C.
Which is why the Constitution in it's first sentence talks about 'We the people of the United States'. Which is why it says Senators and Congressmen must be citizens of the United States. Which is why Washington said, "Citizens, by birth or choice, of a common country, that country has a right to concentrate your affections. The name of American, which belongs to you in your national capacity, must always exalt the just pride of patriotism more than any appellation derived from local discriminations. With slight shades of difference, you have the same religion, manners, habits, and political principles. You have in a common cause fought and triumphed together; the independence and liberty you possess are the work of joint counsels, and joint efforts of common dangers, sufferings, and successes." If Washington had been alive he'd be the first to join the fight against the South's rebellion.
Congress the was not in session and Lincoln usurped all powers not delegated in the Constitution, including the power to suspend habeas corpus. The Constitution says when habeas corpus may be suspended. It is silent on just who may suspend it.
In Ex parte MERRYMAN the USSC overruled the usurper YET the usurper IGNORED the Constitutional ruling !!! You really are not good at research at all, are you. Taney issued his order in his role as a circuit court judge. The entire Supreme Court never took up the Merriman case.
What`s a war crime? How about burning large southern cities to the ground, looting and pillaging.
Yada, yada, yada. When Union did it it was bad Lincoln. When the South did it you have no problems at all.
Again, you`re dumb as a stump and the typical usurper apologist.
Based on your posts to date, being called dumb by you is like being called ugly by an orangutan.