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To: Tarantulas
“Isn't that happening already? Aren't we making more restrictive laws to reduce risk?...”

And we are going overboard with it.

“By your argument, some marijuana smokers are a burden on society. Shouldn't marijuana use remain illegal to keep those folks productive citizens?”

That makes no sense. These folks you are talking about are already smoking marijuana. I personally do not believe that there are many people out there who wont to smoke marijuana but won't just because it is illegal. Those few out there who don't smoke it now but would if it was made legal are people who have already shown that they have respect for our laws and possess at least some self control. They're less likely to be a problem for us if they start smoking marijuana than those who already do. Most people won't smoke marijuana though because there really are plenty of good reasons not to smoke it that have nothing to do with its legal status.

“Also by your argument, some cocaine and heroin users are not burdens to society. Shouldn't cocaine and heroin be legalized to benefit the productive citizens who use it in the privacy of their own homes?”

Drugs like heroin and cocaine are incredibly addictive, especially heroin. Cocaine is far more widely used than heroin, but most people who try either drug do it once or only a few times and then leave them alone, or they'll do them every once in a while for a period of a few years before they grow out of that phase of their lives. These people really aren't that much of a problem for us. The big problem for us are those who do become addicted, and a fairly significant number of the people who fool around with these things do become addicted.

Just because not everyone who tries these drugs becomes a burden on society should we legalize them? Hell no. These drugs are too addictive and too prone to causing problems for innocent people. And, prohibition actually works to some extent with these drugs. One thing it does do is keep these drugs expensive, which is a double edged sword, but it does reduce availability. People are a lot less likely to share their expensive cocaine with friends and acquaintances than they would their cheap pot. Those who want to buy these drugs are less likely to be able to afford to buy them, and those who do try them are not so likely to be able to do them often enough to become addicted as they would if these drugs could be had for a low price at a nice clean store.

The fact that so few actually do these drugs makes them much less easily available in an environment where they are banned. Heroin for instance is practically unavailable in my area. Our local law enforcement rarely ever make a heroin busts. Many officers have never made a heroin bust and many criminal defense lawyers have never had a heroin case even if they've handled hundreds or more cases involvinmg other drugs. I've personally represented people in thousands of pounds worth of drug cases and the only heroin case I ever had was one were a couple of guys were caught passing through on the interstate on their way out East with a couple of pounds of it. I've had tons of possession and delivery cases involving all sorts of drugs but none involving heroin. If it was legalized, most people wouldn't mess with it because they don't want to be junkies, but a few would and before long we'd have a contingent of heroin addicts causing us lots of problem and cycling through our legal system over and over again. Why would we want that?

Drugs like cocaine and meth are a lot more available in my area but they still really easily available like something like alcohol. Relatively few people use these drugs. The sources for them are far more limited than the sources for marijuana. If people want to do these drugs odds are they're going to be dealing with scummy drug addict types likely to rip them off, people who are trouble that most folks would not want to deal with. They're also fairly expensive on a per use basis so people who use these drugs are much less likely to offer to just share these drugs with others like they would their cheap pot. The ban on these drugs does actually make them somewhat harder to get than they would be if they were legal.

Marijuana is different though. Lots of people use it. Especially if you are young you are likely to know all sorts of people who use it who you could ask to help you find some. People often share their marijuana too. It's no big deal to break out a couple of bucks worth of pot and smoke it with everybody in the room. They're much less likely to do that with fifty or a hundred dollars worth of coke or whatever. Marijuana is already cheap, and it is already easy to get, especially if you are young. A higher percentage of young people use it than older people, and the more people you know who smoke pot the easier it is for you to get some. The ban isn't making it particularly expensive on a per use basis, and it isn't making it hard to get. If people want pot, most would find it easy to come by and they will probably be able to get it at a price where it will be cheaper to get a buzz from it than it would be to get a buzz from beer.

“The idea here seems to be that if many people break a law, then the law should be repealed. And I ask again - shouldn't this be applied across the board to all laws?”

That's not really the idea, that if lots of people break a law we should repeal it. There are a lot of laws that are worth having, even if lots of people break them. Lots of people steal, but we shouldn't get rid of our laws against theft. We have a compelling interest in stopping thefts. We probably are stopping a lot of thefts with our laws because a theft is something someone is far more likely to get caught doing than a “pot smoking.” People know that. They know that if they steal there is a fairly good chance they'll get caught and that has to deter a lot from stealing. The chance of getting caught smoking pot is far less than the chance of getting caught stealing, especially if the pot smoker will just be a little careful. People know that too. Most know that if they don't do stupid things likely to get them caught they probably never will get caught smoking pot. The level of deterrence from the laws against marijuana is never going to be anywhere close to the level of deterrence for laws against criminal conduct with a much higher likelihood of getting caught. That's another area where the laws are more effective for drugs like meth because while people know that most people will never be caught with pot if they are just a little careful, they see that tweakers and cokeheads are always getting busted. The punishments are more sever and the chance of getting caught seems to be a lot higher so the laws against these other drugs are naturally going to have a lot more deterrent effect than the laws against marijuana.

“Maybe they're not doing it because they don't want to get caught, i.e., they don't want to break the law.”

I thin you are right about that to some degree. There are people out there who just don't want to break a law. But, most people don't think of this as much of a violation of the law. Especially younger folks will look at it more like doing something like driving a few miles over the speed limit on a long stretch of straight road out in the country when no one is around. It's viewed as no big deal, and a lot of folks will do it I think just because they are told they can't. A lot of people really don't like that the government will tell them that they can't smoke a little pot. They aren't bothering anyone or even putting anyone at any risk in most cases.

“Which of these drugs would you legalize and which would you keep illegal?”

Every last one of them that isn't currently legal except for marijuana. There maybe some other drugs out there that aren't all that harmful or addictive or prone to causing many problems in society, but hardly anyone does them. The market for them is tiny. Organized crime isn't getting rich selling them like they are with marijuana. These drugs aren't easy to find all the time in most cases. The ban on them isn't causing us a lot of harm. There really isn't much point in legalizing them. It would only increase availability and use of these substances. I'd fight against legalization of any currently illegal drug except for marijuana.

And that chart is b.s. It's got solvents causing less physical harm than benzodiazapines or barbiturates. That's hogwash. Ever deal with many huffers? That stuff wrecks their brains and their bodies and much of the damage caused is permanent. Of course the paint and solvents and gas and whatnot that they use are all legal substances but hardly anyone uses them to get high.

39 posted on 12/18/2008 12:44:28 PM PST by SmallGovRepub
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To: SmallGovRepub

Huffing is probably the worst way possible to get high. Your body is made up of carbon compounds, organic solvents love to dissolve them, that’s just the chemical damage(I’m a Chemist).


40 posted on 12/18/2008 7:10:32 PM PST by John Will
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