Believe what you like. I simply don't care. Accept the consequences? Absolutely. I have not been handling my finances with the same reckless abandon as the big three.
No worries here.
Posted on 12/15/2008 5:44:50 AM PST by SJackson
United Auto Workers President Ron Gettelfinger holds up a document during a news conference in Detroit, Friday, Dec. 12, 2008. A relieved Gettelfinger said he's happy that the White House appears poised to step in and rescue the beleaguered auto industry, and he accused GOP senators who blocked emergency loans of trying to "pierce the heart" of organized labor. (AP Photo/Paul Sancya)(CNSNews.com) - The United Auto Workers (UAW) union is “solely” to blame for the collapse of negotiations on a $14-billion auto bailout deal that stalled in the Senate Thursday, Sen. Tom Colburn (R-Okla.) told CNSNews.com on Friday.
But UAW President Ron Gettelfinger in a press conference Friday morning blamed Republican senators, who he said resented his organization.
The auto bailout bill, which passed the House in a 237-170 vote on Wednesday, was defeated in a 52-35 procedural vote in the Senate late Thursday night after negotiations between automakers, the UAW, and Sen. Bob Corker (R-Tenn.) fell apart.
“As far as the failure of last night, it solely lies on UAW,” Coburn told CNSNews.com. “All we asked was, ‘Just give us a date at which you will have competitive wage rates. We will put it in and that’s what you will have to meet.’ They would not move. They would not renegotiate their contract with GM as far as wage rates.”
Coburn was referring to an amendment crafted by Corker that would have required the auto makers to reduce their labor costs to a level equal to the salaries paid by non-unionized foreign auto companies operating in the United States, firms such as Nissan, Toyota and Honda.
Gettelfinger, however, blamed senators like Coburn who opposed the bailout.
“Corker admitted to our people on the ground that they [concerns about pay] were largely about politics within the GOP caucus,” said Gettelfinger. “There is no question that the UAW has demonstrated leadership in this process. There were some in the Senate, who, we felt, resented that.”
Gettelfinger also said that since financial workers were not asked to make concessions in the $700 billion bailout, senators were applying a double standard to the UAW.
Before Thursday’s vote, Coburn told CNSNews.com that he thought the domestic auto companies would never be viable without the kind of sacrifices called for in Corker’s amendment.
Coburn, however, also said that he does not blame unionized labor for the financial difficulties of the automakers.
“I don’t put the blame of their long-term troubles on the UAW,” Coburn told CNSNews.com. “I put it on the management of the auto companies who signed ridiculously expensive contracts with the UAW.”
But Dan Griswold, director of the Center for Trade Policy Studies at the free market Cato Institute, told CNSNews.com on Friday that the UAW is, in part, to blame.
“UAW contracts have played a big role in pulling automakers into the crisis they now face,” said Griswold. “Those contracts are the single biggest difference between domestic and foreign-owned competitors operating on U.S. soil.”
Griswold also said that it was the UAW’s “adversarial attitude” in the bailout negotiations that caused the talks to collapse.
In Thursday’s Senate vote, three Democrats sided with 31 Republicans in opposing the bailout.
This is your opinion...
I lived in Georgia. My sister and sister-in-law both live in Georgia. My wife’s family is from Virginia...Albermarle Country near Charlottesville. I have spent many enjoyable weeks at Fairfield Glade (timeshare resort) and Sapphire valley (timeshare resort). I’ve been to Dollywood and all the other attractions in this area. I went to the aquarium in Tennessee-excellent attraction.
Nope, I’ve been all over the South including other southern states. I won’t spend leisure dollars in states that have -best case scenario-representatives and not the citizens who hate the Mid West and Michigan in particular with Ohio following a close second. I also won’t buy cars from transplant nation even if the big three goes away.
There was no attempt to reopen the contract. The GOP caucus merely demanded this-knowing it would not be possible. What people don’t understand is that this - as it was worded- could have included legacy as well in these wages. Perhaps you have hear of contractual law? When you sign a contract, you can not break it at will. As for the productive economy...I don’t what you are referring to after listening to the financial news this morning...doesn’t seem to be one. We are in deep trouble-adding millions more to the unemployment roles would be incredibly stupid.
It’s a shame the Senate GOP played politics with our nation in one of its darkest hours. I don’t know if I can vote for them anymore. I held my nose and worked for and voted for McCain. But, I am questioning whether they are fit to lead now. It may be third party for me.
But you see, without a bridge loan, the big three will go out of business. They can not survive a bankruptcy. So if you truly want to retain this industry, you got to have the loan.
The UAW is nothing more than an extortionist organization and will fail under it’s own weight. If they hold strong, they will be unemployed. A new contract ordered by the bankruptcy court will save the jobs and make the future a little brighter for the manufacturing base.
You obviously don’t believe the high costs and outlandish work rules placed on these companies by your beloved UAW has anything to do with the economic conditions the Big 3 face.
Feel free to enjoy the dying state of Michigan. Many will follow the opposite of your lead by not buying UAW produced cars and staying away from Michigan businesses.
Your dear sainted mother didn’t raise you too well did she. For example you as a kid see bigger kids shoplifting items from a store you therefore think it is your right to shoplift items as well.
That is pretty much your argument about the financial bailout. Mom the big boys at Citi and the other banks got money then I deserve it too.
Never mind that most Americans thought that the first bailout was a bad idea and that we just wasted 700 billion with little result. You want another bailout for the auto industry and frankly I see nothing that tells me that it will be any more successful than the first bailout.
Now I and other Freepers has suggested that if we bailout the auto industry instead of direct payments to the automakers like direct payments to the banks we give the consumers a tax credit to buy an American car. By doing so you increase demand, it helps not only the automakers but the car dealers, the local and state governments, the shippers of vehicles, etc.
Explain to me how paying 50 billion directly to the auto industry increases demand? Frankly I don’t think it is about paying their suppliers either. If you have tons of unsold finished goods the last thing you need to worry about is raw materials to make more unsold cars. If it is the suppliers the big Three was worried about they would have the bailout go directly to those suppliers.
This is all about meeting payroll isn’t it? It is all about paying the UAW what the automakers owe them.
Never mind that there is absolutely no way the automakers can pay the taxpayers back or not require more loans in the future.
I lived and suffered through the farm crisis of the 1980’s when even with government help there was widespread economic depression in the rural areas. Those areas still vote Republican. I have seen the Railroads and the Steel Industry decline, etc. No industry has been indispensable for the country in the long term.
Stop thinking short term or else find another job. What do you prefer another pay cut or no job in the future? I want to see a long term solution rather than just paying money out because it’s “fair”. I have heard not a single good reason why this bailout is going to turn the companies around and save the industry.
Another thing is you complained about southern states offering incentives to Toyota and others to build plants there. Why the hell didn’t GM take advantage of the offer as well? Most of their plants are located in high cost areas and is not as efficient as these newer plants. Be it the UAW not wanting them to move to Right to Work states or the inept management they have problems.
A new contract ordered by a car czar will avoid a ruinous bankruptcy which will certainly result in liquidation. I tire of saying this but the Union wages are already in line...it’s the legacy costs that matter. As for health care. The union already pays for and administers this plan for the rank and file. As for work rules. This is the most important concession and it’s been done in my plant at least. I know this for sure.
Look, I’m tired of hearing about how evil the union is; they are just working people with families like you unless you are one of the wealthy types. Many of my guys served in the military. They liken the GOP behavior in this matter to a generation of soldiers being called baby killers in the 70’s...they are being kicked in the teeth by other Americans and the GOP after serving their country bravely.
All you union haters think it’s 1955, and you don’t know anything about this matter. This is not a political issue, but rather an American issue. These union people are taxpayers, some are vets and more importantly all are Americans...so those of you who wish ill upon them...I hope it slaps you in the face instead. You deserve it; they don’t. The globalists have made the union the bogeyman to hide the truth...their policies are disastrous to our country and have brought this country to bankruptcy. I say this as a GM manager who works with the union and knows them.
Many of the guys will be laid off in December and are trying to make it to the next year...it’s a sad situation, and for those of you who glory in their misfortune for political reasons, I say you are not a patriot and do not deserve to be called an American.
Bankruptcies do not work for large manufacturing companies...if you doubt this look at Adelphi. This company will soon go out of business never emerging from bankruptcy. Also, you have nothing to base your belief on beside a desire for it to be true. People will not purchase a car from a bankrupt company...we would be looking at four years of bankruptcy. What if you are wrong (you are by the way) are you prepared to accept the consequences. The US becomes a nation dependent for everything from other countries...hardly what a conservative should want in my opinion.
Thank you Sen. Coburn for being brave enough to tell it like it is. I hope your family is safe. These thugs play hardball.
What idiotic garbage.
So, you want a bailout from other taxpayers to save your own butt. Maybe you should spend more time taking care of GM's problems instead of posting on a message board about how great the UAW is.
I think the UAW members are a bunch of selfish thugs who don't want anything to change. That is life. Jobs come and jobs go and life goes on for most people. We don't expect for someone else to save a job for us. We move on and find another job and stop complaining about it. Why should it be any different for GM/UAW?!
No kidding. But, this guy/gal wants us to be sympathetic to them. I don't think so!
He/she is proving exactly what we thought of the UAW in the first place. They are a bunch of whiny, selfish thugs and who obviously think they are something special.
I don't understand why 'their jobs' are any more 'special' than anyone else. They make freaking cars. It's not like you can't go out and buy a car from someone else if they go away. I guess we can call them the 'affirmative action' of the car industry.
**Many of my guys served in the military. They liken the GOP behavior in this matter to a generation of soldiers being called baby killers in the 70’s...they are being kicked in the teeth by other Americans and the GOP after serving their country bravely.**
Ever read about the battle of Tarawa in the South Pacific in World War II? The Marines was hampered in loading the ships getting ready for the battle by a strike of the New Zealand longshoreman union. In fact strikes by unions that put our fighting men at risk was common during World War II, Korean War and Vietnam.
Your union spent a lot of money getting Jack Murtha and Dick Durbin reelected after they smeared the good name of the troops fighting today. There are many vets out there who found their livelihoods destroyed because it ran counter to the interests of the Unions and the Liberals they elect.
Did your boys give a damn about the coal miners when their union supported Obama and the end of coal mining in America? Did they give a damn about the oil field workers when you know that the new administration will not expand domestic drilling? Do they care about the workers at the last remaining domestic lead smelter in the USA when Obama’s EPA will shut it down? Do they care about the small businessman who now has to pay much more taxes and regulations thanks to your Union support of Obama? What about the farmers when Obama shuts down their markets overseas?
Personally I feel sorry for the guy laid off at the local convienance store or gas station who was working near minimum wage and little unemployment. It is harder to get as emotional about autoworkers who make more than college professors being laid off. Your workers if they spent any time on the job should have their homes and vehicles paid off and money in the bank.
If they haven’t saved anything for hard times then perhaps they are too stupid to help.
By the way since the money for the bailout comes from somewhere, I suggest the UAW send every future social security participant a thank you card for sending Social Security and Medicare into bankruptcy sooner than later.
Auto Bailout Could be Announced by Wednesday
Reuters | Tue Dec 16, 2008 11:33am EST
Posted on 12/16/2008 11:05:49 AM PST by lewisglad
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2149720/posts
Bailout Buyer’s Remorse:
The Ironies of the Republican opposition to saving Detroit (Barf Alert!)
The Columbia Journalism Review | December 15, 2008 | Charles Kaiser
Posted on 12/15/2008 9:41:51 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2149431/posts
How much you got saved? Because hard times are here...hope it’s enough. Could you pay your mortgage for long if you were laid off? Most Americans no matter where they work can not.
However, I still maintain my position. Your post proves my basic point. This is all political. You and others are pissed because the union gives money to Dems period...you would run the economy into the ground for political reasons. The ‘to hell with the country and especially the Mid West, lets kill the unions’ cry rising from the GOP/conservative movement and echoed by those nitwit Southern senators is going to kill the GOP in the end. None of you can look at an electoral map and see the truth...you can’t win the presidency without the Mid West.
This rosy little dream scenario I hear over and over...we must educate and be true to our principles blah blah will not work with a region that hates your guts because you caused millions to lose their jobs, homes and life savings. You better pray that Bush bails out the GOP with a loan to the big three because - kill the American car-kill the GOP- or at least send it to the wilderness for many years.
It won't matter. CA and the Blue Northeastern states already buy foreign cars. More red states buy UAW cars as it is. Try getting the Libs to buy UAW. They don't and they won't.
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