Posted on 12/11/2008 8:11:08 AM PST by GodGunsGuts
(See original for links)
Washington DC, Dec 9 -- Nearly 25 years after the publication of four foundational articles on HIV and AIDS, prominent scientists, physicians and legal experts are now asking for their removal from the journal Science.
Their request is based upon new evidence that Dr. Robert Gallo - the former National Cancer Institute (NCI) researcher who declared he had found the probable cause of AIDS - had actually based his claims on his own unverified last-minute alterations to lab reports and experiments.
The letter's 37 signatories include medical doctors, chemists, oncologists, university professors, virologists, researchers, pathologists, AND biologists. After fellow researcher Matthew Gonda PhD informed Gallo that his electron microscopy showed no evidence of a virus in 1984, Gallo used Gonda’s name and photographs to corroborate his claim that he had isolated the virus. Because the majority of all subsequent AIDS research is predicated on the assumption that Gallo's research was legitimate, the ramification of these findings of fraud raises serious questions regarding past and current US policy toward AIDS research.
It now appears that Gallo never produced any evidence or proof that HIV attacks cells or causes AIDS. As a result of his unchallenged claims, Gallo was officially declared one of two co-discoverers of the HIV in 1984.
Gallo left NCI after the Dept's of Health's Office of Research Integrity (ORI) accused him of committing scientific misconduct (1992). Although the evidence against him was considerable a legal technicality prevented criminal charges from being filed.
Gallo shares a patent for HIV tests that generates millions of dollars in annual revenue, although the tests do not detect the presence of the virus itself or any unique or specific components of HIV. No HIV test manufacturer has ever claimed that their tests detect HIV or AIDS.
The new findings were first admitted into evidence during a Congressional investigation (Dingell-1993) that focused on questions related to Gallo's alleged theft of cell culture samples. Those hearings never examined the actual fabrication of research.
The ORI reported that Gallo's "irresponsible laboratory management has permanently impaired the ability to retrace the important steps taken." Not only did Gallo's conduct prevent fellow scientists from verifying his research, but Gallo distributed research materials with the express stipulation that his experiments not be repeated.
Semmelweis Society International (SSI) has determined that the new evidence does not conflict with the findings of its own investigation, which was initiated after a former medical student raised questions about AIDS in Africa.
For additional information, contact Clark Baker (clark@semmelweis.org) or visit www.semmelweis.org.
(Semmelweis Society International, Inc., is a registered 501c3 non-profit corporation. Comprised of physicians, nurses, attorneys and university professors, its primary mission is to promote patient safety by ending retaliation against scientists, physicians, and nurses who report dangerous conditions, fraud, and corruption within hospitals and the US healthcare industry.)
==HIV doesn’t kill its host quick enough to preclude its being spread
As I said, HIV is grown in permanently infected, immortal T-cell lines for the HIV antibody test. Thus, your chain is broken beyond repair.
How so, and at what step?
Do you understand what it means for HIV to be grown in permanently infected, immortal T-cell lines? It means HIV does not kill T-cells.
There are specific proteins in the body that cut up other proteins and “present” that segment outside the cell for the immune system to have a look at. Any “self” proteins that are cut up and presented do not induce an immune response, but retroviral proteins presented will induce an immune response that will lead to the death of the cell.
Wow. Add abject ignorance of how immunity works to the growing list of subjects that GGG knows nothing about.
==HIV doesn’t need to kill T cells for an HIV infection to result in lower T cell count within the infected individual. Perhaps in your ignorance you do not know that it is the immune system that is responsible for killing infected cells.
“HIV does directly kill, or otherwise cause the death of a substantial fraction of the total CD4+ T-cell complement of the body.”—Robert Gallo, 2006.
LOL!
Actually, “nothing” would be a step in the positive direction. I find it interesting that when I follow the links at the HIV Truther sites, they all seem to go back to 1994, as if no research had been done in the last 15 years.
==HIV doesn’t need to kill T cells for an HIV infection to result in lower T cell count within the infected individual.
As it turns out, the fact that other parts of the AIDS establishment is now saying that HIV indirectly kills T-cells is a stunning admission on the part of the generals in the “War on AIDS.”
From Rethinking AIDS...LOL!
Until recently, prevailing dogma said HIV causes AIDS by killing T-cells. Most people, including Robert Gallo, still adhere to this belief even though there is no evidence to support it. On the contrary, the wealth of evidence available clearly shows that HIV does not, in fact, kill T-cells. This is not surprising since the hallmark of retroviruses (HIV included) is that they do not kill cells [1, 2].
The discoverer of HIV, Luc Montagnier, heads [3] a list [4-6] of virologists who have confirmed that HIV does not kill T-cells in culture. Neither does it kill T-cells in human beings. Mario Roederer of Stanford University said in an editorial in 1998 [7] that the results of Pakker et al. [8] and Gorochov et al. [9] “provide the final nails in the coffin for models of T cell dynamics in which a major reason for changes in T cell numbers is the death of HIV-infected cells.”
Roederer went on to conclude that, “The facts (1) that HIV uses CD4 as it primary receptor, and (2) that CD4+ T cell numbers decline during AIDS, are only an unfortunate coincidence that have led us astray from understanding the immunopathogenesis of this disease.” See references [10, 11] for additional evidence that HIV does not kill T-cells in people.
The fact that HIV does not kill T-cells has caused a remarkable about-face in mainstream thinking. Commenting on a recent paper by Hellerstein et al. [12], Guido Silvestri and Mark Feinberg summarized in 2003 the latest speculation that HIV causes AIDS not by killing T-cells but by over-stimulating the immune system [13]. Silvestri and Feinberg inform us that, “Prevailing views…have shifted from models that focus primarily on direct HIV-mediated killing of CD4+ T cells to models that emphasize the pathogenic role of generalized immune system activation.” In other words, HIV no longer causes AIDS by killing our immune cells, as Gallo contends, but by boosting our immune system.
Refs. 1. Rubin H, Temin H. A radiological study of cell-virus interaction in the Rous sarcoma. Virology 1958,7:75-91.
2. Weiss R, Teich N, Varmus H, Coffin J. Molecular Biology of RNA Tumor Viruses. Plainview, NY: Cold Spring Harbor Lab. Press; 1985.
3. Lemaitre M, Guetard D, Henin Y, Montagnier L, Zerial A. Protective activity of tetracycline analogs against the cytopathic effect of the human immunodeficiency viruses in CEM cells. Res Virol 1990,141:5-16.
4. Langhoff E, McElrath J, Bos HJ, et al. Most CD4+ T cells from human immunodeficiency virus-1 infected patients can undergo prolonged clonal expansion. J Clin Invest 1989,84:1637-1643.
5. Anand R, Reed C, Forlenza S, Siegal F, Cheung T, Moore J. Non-cytocidal natural variants of human immunodeficiency virus isolated from AIDS patients with neurological disorders. Lancet 1987,2:234-238.
6. Hoxie JA, Haggarty BS, Rakowski JL, Pillsbury N, Levy JA. Persistent noncytopathic infection of normal human T lymphocytes with AIDS-associated retrovirus. Science 1985,229:1400-1402.
7. Roederer M. Getting to the HAART of T cell dynamics. Nature Medicine 1998,4:145-146.
8. Pakker NG, et al. Biphasic kinetics of peripheral blood T cells after triple combination therapy in HIV-1 infection: a composite of redistribution and proliferation. Nature Medicine 1998,4:208-214.
9. Gorochov G, et al. Perturbation of CD4+ and CD8+ T-cell repertories during progression to AIDS and regulation of the CD4+ repertoire during antiviral therapy. Nature Medicine 1998,4:215-221.
10. Grossman Z, Herberman RB. T-cell homeostasis in HIV infection is neither failing nor blind: modified cell counts reflect an adaptive response of the host [see comments]. Nat Med 1997,3:486-490.
11. Hellerstein M, Hanley MB, Cesar D, et al. Directly measured kinetics of circulating T lymphocytes in normal and HIV-1-infected humans [see comments]. Nat Med 1999,5:83-89.
12. Hellerstein MK, Hoh RA, Hanley MB, et al. Subpopulations of long-lived and short-lived T cells in advanced HIV-1 infection. J Clin Invest 2003,112:956-966.
13. Silvestri G, Feinberg MB. Turnover of lymphocytes and conceptual paradigms in HIV infection. J Clin Invest 2003,112:821-824.
1) HIV enters helper T-cells
2) HIV reproduces inside helper T-cells
3) HIV infection leads to reduced counts of helper T-cells.
4) Low levels of helper T-cells leads to immune deficiency.
Obviously not #1, you have admitted that HIV does infect helper T-cells.
Not #2, you admit that immortalized helper T-cells are what biologists use to produce HIV.
Is it #3 now? You are claiming that HIV infection will not lead to lower helper T-cell count? It doesn't matter if the HIV is killing the helper T-cells or if the immune response is killing the helper T-cells. An infected helper T-cell is likely to be killed by the immune system, no matter what virus it is infected with.
Do you contend that HIV infection will not lead to lower helper T-cell count?
How do you explain the actions of Simian Immunodeficiency Virus (SIV) that acts exactly like HIV?
How do you explain the inverse correlation between HIV titer and helper T-cell count?
Why would antiretroviral medicine lead to lowering HIV titer and increased T-cell count?
Holding my breath for an answer.
I predict it will be along the line that your are a commiepinkofaggot or something technical like that. And you are part of the athiest conspiracy.
Fine, except that I am a conservative capitalist heterosexual Christian.
Yes, but after years of prayer threads for George Bush, Freepers turned on him when he revealed his opinion that evolution and Christianity are compatable.
And just what is the significance of this, in your view?
The significance of HIV entering helper T cells is that the article mentions that Gallo provided no evidence of such, without mentioning that it has clearly been shown by more recent researchers; thus they were trying to leave their readers ignorant of current science on the subject, which is how they like them.
OK. I should have read more of the posts. It’s clear that you are trying to show some causal relationship between HIV and AIDS.
Good luck with that, Sysiphus.
So where do you see the chain of causality breaking down?
1) HIV enters helper T-cells
2) HIV reproduces inside helper T-cells
3) HIV titer count is negatively correlated with helper T-cell count
4) anti-retroviral drugs lower HIV titer count and increase helper T-cell count
5) low helper T-cell count leads to immune deficiency.
First you need to explain EXACTLY what you mean by “HIV Titer count”. My understanding is that HIV is no longer present in individuals with suppressed immune systems, i.e. the immune system has ridded the system of the infection. Hence the bizarre theory that HIV must hide somewhere in the human body for decades in order to cause AIDS years or decades after the HIV is apparently cleared. So, what is this HIV titer? I strongly suspect that it is NOT what is implied by your description, i.e. a count of intact HIV virus, but is rather the same pathetic “viral particle count” that has been used for years as a smokescreen for years.
Here’s another bald one: “anti-retroviral drugs lower HIV titer count and increase helper T-cell count”. If this is true, which I doubt sincerely, given the nature of anti-viral drugs, i’d like to see the evidence of it.
HIV most certainly is present in individuals HIV positive individuals with a suppressed immune system, as I said previously, there is a negative correlation between HIV titer count and helper T-cell count. For those of you in Rio Linda, that means when HIV titer count goes up the number of helper T-cells goes down; and when you put a subject on anti-retroviral medicine their HIV titer count goes down, and their helper T-cell count goes up.
If true, which it is not, according to everything I have read indicating that HIV is LONG GONE from the system years in advance of any symptoms of a suppressed immune system, you still have not indicated any causality, only a correlation. Big difference.
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