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To: Citizen Blade; Between the Lines

“Between the Lines” said — “There is no consensus as to whether or not the convention would have the power to simply disavow the Constitution altogether and propose replacing it with an entirely new document”

And then you replied — “I tend to believe it is meant to be the latter. There is already a mechanism in place for amending the existing Constitution. A Constitutional convention could write a new Constitution from scratch.”

Well, in case you didn’t realize it, there are *two ways* to amend the Constitution, which is “constitutional”... LOL..

One way is for the Congress to propose the Amendment and submit it to the states for ratification. The second way is for the states to submit an amendment and ratify it themselves — again by the *same* ratification procedure for all amendments — being that 3/4 of the states have to ratify it. This second way was put in the Constitution for the case in which Congress *would not act* the way the states wanted. So, this gave the states the ability to do it themselves, thereby bypassing the Congress. That’s the purpose of having two ways in the Constitution.

And the Balanced Budget Amendment was one of those things that Congress refused to submit (on their own). So, the states have taken this amendment into their own hands, thereby bypassing Congress and their refusal to act on it. That’s what is going on.

Furthermore, several states have provisions that the people whom they send to the Constitutional Convention will not be able to vote on any other amendment, or else their “right” (granted by the state sending them there) will be revoked and they will remove them from the Constitutional Convention, and they will *withdraw* from the Constitutional Convention.

And since all the states who have passed the Constitutional Convention route for getting the Balanced Budget Amendment — have specified that they are *only* acting on this one amendment, that means that at least 34 states will *refuse* to vote on anything else (if it were to come up). That would kill the Constitutional Convention and nothing would pass. It would be D.O.A. at that point.

That’s why it wouldn’t be a “runaway Constitutional Convention”....

It’s “Article 5” of the Constitution, by the way. You can read more about it, as a “staring point” right here — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_Five_of_the_United_States_Constitution


180 posted on 12/11/2008 3:21:21 PM PST by Star Traveler
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To: Star Traveler
when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress;

This last part is where lurks the danger of a runaway convention. Article V. lets Congress determine all of the modalities, that are dangerously ambiguous and undefined here. We know what the state legislatures are, but what the heck are "Conventions in three fourths thereof?" Who defines the places and times and delegates to these state ratifying conventions? It implies that Congress does, but this is not stated explicitly, Article v. only says that Congress chooses the "Mode of Ratification." But who organizes and chooses the voting delegates at these conventions? It is said nowhere, and in this there is great room for mischief, as I described in my fictional "Kangaroo Convention" back at reply 49.

I fear a con-con during a period of great national stress, with a 'rat congress pushing and running the show, and defining the means and choosing the delegates to bogus "state ratifying conventions" that the Congress would then endorse as valid.

188 posted on 12/11/2008 6:21:31 PM PST by Travis McGee (--www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com--)
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