Posted on 12/10/2008 11:25:07 AM PST by calenel
Anyone on here from Ron Paul’s district? If there is anyone in Congress that will be willing to demand authentic and verifiable proof, it is him.
The MSM obviously needs some help making it thru the learning curve: make this thing grow legs and find someone with a Hawaii COLB not actually born in HI, and get a sworn affidavit from them stating such.
I guess she could apply to the courts to have them compel 0bama to provide proof of his natural born status but that’s what all the other law suits are trying to do.
She is bound to uphold the Constitution but she is also bound to uphold the laws of the State of Hawaii. She can’t break one law to uphold another.
Where?
bump
Who. His paternal grandmother, half brother and half sister all claim(ed) he was born in Kenya. His grandmother says she was there. So far, we have exactly zero people claiming to have been at Obama's birth in HI (except Obama himself). We have three claims of Obama family members. Then there's Kenyan Ambassador, Peter Ogego, who says so, although that isn't firsthand. Gov. Richardson says Obama is an immigrant. 'Course, he's just another idiot liberal with his tongue out of gear. The grandmother can credibly make the claim she was there, and the sibs can claim first hand information. Is it true? I don't know. The BC could tell us.
And where do they say this? Source please.
Then there's Kenyan Ambassador, Peter Ogego, who says so, although that isn't firsthand.
I've heard the recording. At no time does he say that Obama was born there, and he has since denied he ever intended to say or even imply Obama was born in Kenya.
The grandmother can credibly make the claim she was there, and the sibs can claim first hand information. Is it true? I don't know. The BC could tell us.
Or evidence indicating he was, in fact, born in Kenya could do the same thing. Now, do you have anything that shows that or are you operating from internet rumor? Some source quoting the grandmother or the siblings would help. Though I assume you are aware that Obama's half sister would have been about one year old when he was born, and his half brother would have been about three so it's hard to believe that either had any memories of the 'blessed event'.
There are at least two distinct recordings in which someone, alleged to be Obama's GrandMama, claims a) that she was present at his birth, or b) that he was born in Kenya. As Tim Johnson would say, they "are widely available on the Internet." No doubt they are widely available on FR, too. Anyway, here is the link to a recording of Obama's grandmother saying she was there, and here is one from someone on the other side of the phone interview. Here is one of her saying he is a native of her village.
I do not speak Swahili, so I must rely on the claims of the translators. I simply offer these as evidence that there are claims contradictory to those of... well, nobody, since there are no claims by anyone that they were present at his birth in Hawaii.
And there in lies a problem, neither does Obama's grandmother. So it begs the question that if this woman is speaking Swahili then who the hell is she?
That is clearly not true. He would not even be a citizen, unless later naturalized, if he was born outside the US. Since the law at the time required that the US Citizen parent of a child born overseas of one US Citizen parent and a foreign national have resided in the US for 5 years after their 14th birthday. Stanley Ann Dunham Obama was not old enough to have done so when BHO was born.
So much for this Senator's credibility.
Do you have a source for that?
No matter, it is not really relevant.
Do you have a reason why we should NOT have doubts about Obama's place of birth?
Incidentally, there is an assertion in one of the videos that Ms. Obama is in fact fluent in Swahili. There is a reference in another one of the videos that she speaks something called Lau which I took to be a language (also the tribal name, so if it is a language then I would expect it to be her native tongue).
If that is your only issue with my letter then I expect I'm doing well.
I suspect that there is a real problem with Obama's BC, or it would be out there already. I suspect that the SR 511 resolution and the relatively light scrutiny that McCain's birth circumstances received led Obama to believe he could get by with the COLB. After all, it's 'pretty close' and there are so many other documents to pursue, right? I suspect that the Rats think we're as stupid as their own voters are (the last election confirmed that), and they know they have the MSM to scoff at anything we might say. And it's such an obscure law, after all (as evidenced by Johnson's letter above), EVERYBODY (except the 'born a citizen but not a natural born citizen' crowd) knows that if you are the child of an American citizen you are automatically a natural born citizen. I knew that, before I knew about the 1952 statute, or any of the other exceptions. I don't think it's some kind of vast conspiracy. I think that the only person that really knows the truth is Mr. Obama. I think that there might be a few people that don't want to know, and a whole bunch that don't care, a sort of willful ignorance that protects them from unpleasant truths. And I don't believe that I know, either. But I want to.
I don’t think we disagree.
I just don’t know that she can claim standing other than she has sworn an oath to uphold the Constitution, which would seem to to be enough to you and me, but nay not hold up in court. In which case, she just becomes the 18th lawsuit..
Any biography of the woman.
No matter, it is not really relevant.
You're kidding, right?
Do you have a reason why we should NOT have doubts about Obama's place of birth?
Well on the one hand we have Obama's bullshit COLB. On the other hand we have your bullshit like grandma's interviews. So...why should I believe one over the other?
Incidentally, there is an assertion in one of the videos that Ms. Obama is in fact fluent in Swahili. There is a reference in another one of the videos that she speaks something called Lau which I took to be a language (also the tribal name, so if it is a language then I would expect it to be her native tongue).
It's Luo, not Lau. And it's a tribe and a language. Obama's grandmother's tribe and her native tongue. Not Swahili.
If that is your only issue with my letter then I expect I'm doing well.
Sure, you're doing great. Your only evidence that Obama was born in Kenya is highly suspect to say the least.
And it's such an obscure law, after all (as evidenced by Johnson's letter above), EVERYBODY (except the 'born a citizen but not a natural born citizen' crowd) knows that if you are the child of an American citizen you are automatically a natural born citizen.
You are if you were born in Hawaii.
"Any biography of the woman."
You should live up to the same standards you expect of others and provide a source.
"Well on the one hand we have Obama's bullshit COLB. On the other hand we have your bullshit like grandma's interviews. So...why should I believe one over the other?"
I am not claiming that the assertions of a translator about a statement in a language I don't speak from someone alleged to be a relative of Obama is going to close the deal. I fully acknowledge the flaws in that. But there are exactly zero witnesses claiming to have been present for Obama's birth in HI. And my point, exactly, is that we should not believe one over the other and that it is for Obama to prove himself eligible. But you know that since you read my letter well enough to pick a fight over a minor point.
"You're kidding, right?"
Nope. Whether it is swahili, luo, mandarin or vulcan doesn't matter. For that matter, do you speak swahili or luo? How do you know which language was even being spoken?
"It's Luo, not Lau. And it's a tribe and a language. Obama's grandmother's tribe and her native tongue. Not Swahili."
And your point, again?
"Your only evidence that Obama was born in Kenya is highly suspect to say the least."
And the only evidence that he was not is...what? Here is the Kenyan Ambassador to the United States admitting that Obama's Kenyan birthplace is well known. But that isn't exactly the same as saying he was born there, I suppose. So, you are technically correct in your assertion that he never said it.
"You are if you were born in Hawaii."
But we don't know that, now do we?
Should I go back through my posts and find out what I said to offend you so badly, or do you think we can keep this civil?
Be aware that there are more than one of the recordings of Obamas’ grandmother on the internet. Berg has said, at the We the People press conference that one of them has been doctored to make it look as if the whole thing was a simple misunderstanding.
Either grandma “was in the delivery room in Kenya when he was born Aug. 4, 1961.” or not. Berg said that he has affidavits to that effect, among other things. Being in the delivery room is pretty definitive for a witness, but of course you can choose whom to trust and what to believe.
Touched a nerve, did I? I'm merely pointing out that in your letter the evidence you offer supporting your claim Obama was born in Kenya is pretty bogus. So to criticize Obama on the one hand for something you're doing on the other is kind of hypocritical.
You should live up to the same standards you expect of others and provide a source.
Google is your friend.
Nope. Whether it is swahili, luo, mandarin or vulcan doesn't matter. For that matter, do you speak swahili or luo? How do you know which language was even being spoken.
You said it was Swahili. Don't you remember? In Berg's affidavit it was also claimed the interview was in Swahili.
But we don't know that, now do we?
You don't have any solid evidence he wasn't.
Only the same nerve that anyone cherry-picking an issue to attempt to stifle debate and being obnoxious about it touches.
"I'm merely pointing out that in your letter the evidence you offer supporting your claim Obama was born in Kenya is pretty bogus."
I have already acknowledged it is weak, but not necessarily bogus. It isn't my evidence, it is someone else's. But how about this? I admit that I do not speak what ever language was being spoken on the audio. This same woman is in an Obama puff piece, the video of the 'born in this village' piece and your wiki reference. The subtitle in the 'born' piece reads like the audio sounds. What ever language that is, it should be pretty easy to debunk if it is a mistranslation. Where is that debunking? There are several luo-english dictionaries available. I don't have one handy, but I'm sure any enterprising debunker could get a hold of one to find out what 'nate dhalani' actually means.
"Google is your friend."
Google isn't my friend. They sold out to the Chinese and as a matter of principle I avoid using Google. I use other search engines, which ARE my friends. Google is apparently your friend, so how is it that I am expected to provide sources and you are not?
"Wikipedia, USA Today"
Not everything on Wikipedia or USA Today is true. Neither of them is entirely objective. Wikipedia is subjective by design, and USA Today is a typical 'drive by' medium. Did you notice that Wikipedia says she is a Muslim ("Sarah Obama herself is 'a strong believer of the Islamic faith,' in her words") and USA Today says she is a Christian ("She, too, is a Christian"). Yet both use the exact same quote from her when they make those assertions: "In the world of today, children have different religions from their parents." I wonder what's going on there.
"You said it was Swahili. Don't you remember? In Berg's affidavit it was also claimed the interview was in Swahili."
My assertion that it was Swahili was based on the content of the video. Take your straw man back to the corn field where he belongs. You seem to have an issue with Berg. Why are you bringing him into this? In any case, I have been on the record as saying that Berg's case would fail. That doesn't mean that I said all his assertions were false.
"You don't have any solid evidence he wasn't."
I have anecdotal evidence that he wasn't and no comparable evidence that he was. It isn't up to me to prove he wasn't, it is up to him to prove he was. I am not the presumptive President, he is. A very simple task that would shut this whole thing down. When the same type of questions were directed at McCain he produced the necessary documentation. I expect no more, and no less, from Obama than was expected from the candidate I (reluctantly) supported.
these tawdry terds naturally stick together, don’t they?
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