Posted on 11/30/2008 2:59:10 PM PST by lewisglad
The Battle for the GOP Is On - Palin, Romney or JindalNovember 30th, 2008 By: Michael van der Galien | Tags: Leave a comment | Trackback The latest polls of Republican and all voters indicate that the conservative Republican base favors candidates voters in general do not think too highly of.
For instance, 24.4% Republican voters want Governor Sarah Palin to be the Republican candidate for president in 2012. Only 13.4% of all voters agree.
At the same time, Governor Mitt Romney ranks second among all voters, six points behind Palin, but leads among all voters (be it barely).
Among conservatives, both represent an entirely different faction: Palin is the Christian conservative while Romney is the darling of (elite and well educated) fiscal conservatives. These two battled it out earlier this year with fiscal conservatives favoring Romney, Christian conservatives supporting Governor Mike Huckabee, and the party ending up with Senator John McCain as the compromise candidate.
A compromise figure not able to make life truly difficult for now president-elect Barack Obama.
Most remarkable about the figures, however, is that there is a third candidate who does relatively better (meaning: smaller gap) among all voters than among Republicans: Governor Bobby Jindal. Jindal has quite a low profile nationally, yet he already ranks third in both categories. When all voters are included, the gap between him and Romney is only 1.2%, which is remarkable.
Huckabee fares less well; he is fourth with only 9.7% among Republicans and 8.0% among all voters.
This while Huckabee was the favorite of the Christian conservative base.
So what happened to Huckabee? Palin. Although Huckabee could count on the support of Christian conservatives during the primaries, they all flocked to Palin during the general election campaign. Palin became their candidate, their darling even. The defeat made her more not less popular among this group of conservative voters for they consider her a martyr.
The above means that the Republican Party could very well nominate a person who is deemed anti-intellectual, simple, naive and overly socially conservative in 2012 or that the war between the fiscal conservative and social conservative base will continue with at least one side staying home on election day, thereby ensuring Obama a second term.
That is, unless Palin can improve her image, studies hard and convince libertarian and fiscal conservatives that she is more than just a socon (unlikely). Or if Romney will succeed in courting Evangelicals and convincing them that either his Mormon faith should not be a problem to them (unlikely) or that his faith and their faith teach the same basic principles and values (less unlikely, but not altogether likely).
Of course there is a third option, an option I consider most likely and, especially, most in the interest of the Republican Party: that conservative voters will agree on a compromise candidate who endorses conservative views in most ways. In other words, a person who is a convinced social conservative (yet not overly so, for it would make it easy to destroy a candidate who is as socially conservative and as vocal about it as Palin and Huckabee are), who also has a track record of fiscal conservatism and who sympathizes with many libertarian policies.
At this moment, it seems to me that neither Huckabee nor Palin nor Romney fit the bill (although Romney would certainly be a better choice than the other two). Jindal, however, does.
For Jindal, 2008 and especially 2009 offer a tremendous opportunity to raise his profile nationally, to court conservatives of all stripes and to implement policies rooted in conservatism. He will have to use his time in Louisiana in order to show voters that conservative policies work and improve their daily lives. He he has already done so to a tremendous degree, but the most difficult times are ahead of him. The recession is likely to worsen in the coming months with Americans in all states suffering financially. Jindal will have to control the damage and improve his state at the same time.
There is not. She is a moderate at best.
But every time people answer you [...]
I have answered every post, every one. You on the other hand, did not. preferring to retreat and throw poo from the sidelines.
[...] you turn around and get the Moderator to remove their posts
Show me "every time"... I called the moderator to have his attention brought to one post, following a line of scurrilous lies about Ronald Reagan, That I did right here. And I will guarantee you, your proliferation and support of that lie will one day get you banned. Your mockery of RR on this forum will not last for long.
Other than that, try to find the last time I hollered for a moderator. Your paling attempt to defame me shows your true colors.
At least here you have the good grace to confront me instead of throwing insults from the sidelines as you did on the linked thread.
You’re a very little man, which is why I believe you feel threatened by a powerful woman.
I would happily vote for a powerful woman. I am a huge fan of Maggie Thatcher. I just don't agree with Palin's positions. She is not a Conservative.
I will throw the same question to the thread here as I did before, And since I am getting pissed off about it, I may jst follow the Palin threads around until I get answers:
ATTENTION CONSERVATIVES:
A customary question for you all regarding all the candidates metioned here, and to include her royal highness, Sarah Palin. This question has been asked of Conservatives for thirty years and more, so it is not anything new, or mean, or scary.
For your candidate, from the RECORD (quotes, positions, and actual voting record), Please precisely inform us all how your candidate will successfully appeal to, and harness, all three pillars of of Conservatism.
It is my position that *none* of the OP'd candidates can do so, and I will argue that opposition.
My mockery of RR? Can you not read my handle? It's GipperGal -- as in the Gipper, you know, Ronald Reagan.
I'm a Californian and an absolute lover of Ronald Reagan and everything he stood for. I waited in line for 10 ours in the cold all night to pay my respects to him when his body laid in state at the Reagan Library. I think I show due reverence for the Gipper.
I have answered you numerous times. You had my most recent post removed by the Moderator of another thread completely unfairly. It was a point by point summary of Palin's fiscal conservatism. It took a good hour to write, and unfortunately I didn't save a copy of it before I posted it. I'm still ticked off about that.
I am also disgusted by your statement that Sarah Palin is not really pro-life. Do you still believe that nonsense?
To be fair, and I have already asserted that I am no Palin supporter, but she is far more reliable and conservative leaning than MccAin't- Although, if that were a litmus test, it really would not be much of one. Personally, I won't hold her sojourn with the traitorous bastard against her, with the exception, naturally, of every word that came out of her mouth. If she is a Conservative, she will not trade her principles in for anyone or anything, so what she says, she means.
That she enjoys going up against members of her own Party, that she is eager to work with the other Party (the Dems), and that she doesn’t adhere to Party ideology but wants to work with everyone “to get the job done”
Again, none of this bothers me, providing the outcome is Conservative (by definition). We are about to see such a thing, with the Reaganites and Blue Dog Dems in the House teaming up to block the designs of the Liberals in both parties, and stymie the One in the worst of his actions (it is my fervent hope and prediction)... That is a GOOD thing. Unfortunately, Palins record does not hold up to the scrutiny of a Reagan Conservative, although to be fair, it is not long enough to say what she is for certain.
But it appears Evangelicals only want someone like them in as Prez. A natural inclination I suppose, but not good for the Party as a whole.
My roots are in the Evangelical Protestant community (though I vote and support Reagan Conservatism only). I am as Christian Right, Pro-Life as you can get, and one of my main objections to Palin is her abortion stance.
Your comment is incorrect. She does not support the mainstream Pro-life cause, but rather the lesser libertarian Pro-life position. It is my contention that she cannot bring in the SoCon pillar because of that primary deficit.
All good candidates need consideration.
Any candidate who cannot pass the very basic test of being able to fully embrace all three pillars of Conservatism should not have a single minute's worth of time. It is the primary test for any candidate desiring Conservative support. That is the very basic definition of a "good" candidate, because without all three pillars addressed, the Conservatives will divide into their factions, and everyone will lose.
This is the beauty of Reagan's philosophy and his coalition. No conservative faction should be made to compromise their deeply held principles. It is our duty to support each of the factions' principles as we do our own, because united, we are the most powerful force in America... and divided, we are nothing.
That is why I will not support any of the candidates who are mentioned in the OP, including Romney (whom I believe is your fav), because I remain wholly unconvinced that my fellows can support them without sacrificing principle. That is always defeat, or Pyrrhic victory at best. We have had enough of that.
Like this, just 8 posts ago upthread? Yes. That is true reverence... Like insisting he signed a very liberal abortion bill into law in order to prop up Palin, when such insistence is an outright slander, and wholly false? That's sticking up for Reagan alright. /sarc
I have answered you numerous times. You had my most recent post removed by the Moderator of another thread completely unfairly
I called the Mod to the link I gave upthread, and for good reason. What he did to your BS and mick's BS from there was none of my doing, with the exception of the call to that linked post, though I thank him for removing your tripe. There was no abuse button, there was no pvt mssging. What I did to you and to mick is contained in that post. You got spanked because the Mod didn't like your posts, period.
I warned mick, I truly did. I even gave him evidence of his mistake, which he failed to consider. You may have your opinion here, I am sure that is fine. But if you continue to spout outright lies about RR, you will get the smack-down.
If you have anymore to say about it, your argument is with Admin Moderator, and Jim Robinson, not me.
I am also disgusted by your statement that Sarah Palin is not really pro-life. Do you still believe that nonsense?
It is not nonsense. She does not support the mainstream Pro-life position of Constitutional protection of Life. It is a matter of fact. I gave you the quotes right out of her mouth.
And, btw, having reviewed the referred thread just now, it stands largely intact, with the exception of a single post right after the one I made to the Mod... So I don't even know what your complaining about. There isn't anything removed of a wholesale nature... I was of the impression that there was slashing and burning going on.
If you were all hurt over a single post, I had *nothing* to do with that, and didn't ever even see it.
Does he wear magic garments too?
I bet he knows about capital letters and punctuation, whatever he wears.
Don’t forget worthless Huck has his bus he rides around the country.
I'm grown up enough not to believe in magic garments.
True. Carter died in 1992 and will be back in the White House on Jan 20,2008. That means, Reagan in on his (her) way back in 4 years, this time wearing a lipstick and changing diapers.
No. You're Christian Reich.
The Christian Right supports people like Palin.
By listening to her speak in interviews. She was very good on energy policy, not so good on foreign policy or economy at scale. I still liked and supported her but I don't kid myself. If she wants to be POTUS she has to do some homework. Such is life.
I agree....with all her attributes she still needs to be ready for the national and world stages. I only hope that she doesn’t lose her natural charm and grace in the process. She reminds me a bit of “give ‘em hell Harry”...he remained true to himself as he stepped into the world arena. I want her polished up a bit but to stay true to herself....and to US. I don’t want to EVER see her become “one of them” in the process of dealing with national and world issues. She just didn’t have very good guides and teachers from the McCain group...they had their own agendas. Her performance in the debate with Biden proves she CAN DO IT with the right person leading her.
If you are married and wear a ring to symbolize that marriage, then Mormons believe in “magic” garments in the same sense you believe in “magic” rings.
It would be grown up to realize that.
BUT FIRST A LITTLE PERSONAL AND POLITICAL BACKROUND:I have been here for over 10 years and had a personal interaction with Jim in 2004 when my son ran for congress here in NJ as a republican and he graciously allowed me to post an article in support of his candidacy. I worked for Ronald Reagan in 1980 as a surrogate speaker. And had the privilege of meeting him a few times. And in 1981 he appointed me to a federal commission. So I will never stand second behind any man in my devotion and love for the man and his principles.
My son was elected Natl Chairman of the College Republicans in 1993 in a hard core conservative take over of that organization that was bitterly opposed by the RNC. So my family and myself will not allow anyone to question our support for conservative principles. We have not just talked the talk but have walked the walk. President Reagan appeared with my son in various promotional videos supporting that organization and the cause of conservatism. My son was a delegate to the republican natl. convention this yr from NJ. So much for backround.
This Free Republic site has been tremendously useful to me and my family over the years as a great tool for education and honest intelligent debate.
But my encounter with poster roamer_1 has been very distasteful and the worst experience I have had in ten years as a freeper. This man only deals in opinion ( his ) and posturing ( as in HE represents true conservatism ) and crude vindictive attacks like calling me a lying sack of crap. And while GipperGal needs no defense from me ( she can obviously take care of herself ) I must tell you that she is one of the most well informed people I have ever encountered on this site. I have learned much from her posts about Sarah Palin. In fact I have printed out many of her posts for later study.
My question about policy is this: How is it that a single poster like roamer can threaten reprisals against me and GipperGal for not being a pure enough supporter of Reagan and then take credit for getting a post by GipperGal pulled for alleged transgressions against the memory of RR. ?
It is no exaggeration to say that I love Free Republic. But I fear if we allow the sort of Stalinist attacks against free and open debate by people like roamer who maintain their right to decide who is and who is not sufficiently conservative or Pro-Reagan we are heading for trouble.
That is all I have to say in my defense against these false attacks by raomer.
LOL! Yeah riiiiight! Fiscal Consrevatives just loved Romney's health care scam.
Washington, DC (LifeNews.com) — The positive reaction to presidential candidate John McCain picking pro-life Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin has been overwhelming. Pro-life groups and leaders of all stripes are delighted by the selection and below is a sampling of the comments LifeNews.com has received:
Dr. Richard Land, president of the Southern Baptist Convention’s Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission: “Governor Palin is a vice-presidential selection which shows that John McCain at the age of 72 today is still able to think outside the box. Governor Palin will delight the Republican base. She is pro-life. It appears that Senator Obama played it safe in picking Senator Biden and Senator McCain made the bold and unconventional choice in picking Governor Palin.”
Tony Perkins, President of the Family Research Council: “Senator McCain made an outstanding pick from the choices that were on the table. Sarah Palin clearly addresses the issues so many conservatives are concerned about. It balances out the ticket. She’s also really a checkmate for the Democratic Party because folks who were looking to make history for Barack Obama can make history by voting for John McCain in seeing the first woman elected to the vice-presidency. It was a very strategic move by John McCain.”
Americans United for Life president Charmaine Yoest: “With this bold and inspired selection, Sen. McCain has verified his stated commitment to assembling a truly pro-life administration. The Republican ticket stands in stark contrast to the stridently pro-abortion ticket put forth by the Democratic party. You can be sure the vice presidential selections will have far-reaching ramifications in this race.”
Wendy Wright, president of Concerned Women for America: “Governor Palin will change the dynamics of the entire presidential race. Her admirable record of confronting corruption and living her pro-life convictions shows she is a doer, not just a talker. Sarah Palin will make history as a vice presidential candidate - and not simply because she’s a woman, but because she’s a woman of substance and character.”
Dr. Willke, President of Life Issues Institute, “Governor Sarah Palin, not only decided to give birth to her fifth child recently knowing that ‘Trig’ had Down syndrome; she used the event to emphatically speak out for life. As a woman, independent Republican, strong pro-lifer and a fresh face, she will certainly help the McCain ticket.”
Mat Staver, pro-life attorney and founder of Liberty Council - “Absolutely brilliant choice. John McCain could not have chosen a better vice-presidential nominee that Gov. Palin. She is attractive, articulate, conservative, pro-family, pro-life, and pro-marriage. John McCain hit this one out of the ballpark. She is very pro-life. She has a Down Syndrome child. She’s committed to pro-life. She understands the commitment to the sanctity of human life.”
Jill Stanek, the nurse who exposed live birth abortions: “Governor Sarah Palin is a welcome addition to the McCain Republican ticket. I could not be more pleased that he has chosen a pro-life woman as his running mate. McCain/Palin offers a complete contrast to the Obama/Biden ticket and provides a solid background on all family issues. With Governor Sarah Palin on the Republican ticket, it looks like Obama’s abortion problem just got a whole lot bigger.”
U.S. Senator Jim DeMint, a pro-lifer from South Carolina: “Sarah Palin is an exciting choice by Senator McCain. She completes a strong ticket that will bring a real record of change and reform to Washington. She is a strong defender of traditional family values, with an unquestioned commitment to protect life.”
Christian Coalition of America president Roberta Combs: “Governor Sarah Palin is a bold choice for Vice President who is a courageous advocate for unborn children. I congratulate Senator McCain for his outstanding selection for his vice presidential running mate.”
Congressman Joe Pitts: “I commend Senator McCain for his bold choice in selecting Sarah Palin as his Vice Presidential running mate. Governor Palin is a principled leader who has fought corruption and stood up for the dignity of the unborn.”
Steven W. Mosher, president of the pro-life Population Research Institute: “Our Alaska friends tell us that she is a serious pro- lifer and that she has been a blessing for Alaska. Any woman who has five children, while serving in elective office for over a decade obviously has a serious commitment to Life. This is further underlined by her decision to give birth to a Down’s Syndrome child despite being advised to abort.”
Executive Director of Life Issues Institute, Bradley Mattes, said this about the selection, “Senator McCain made the best choice possible for a vice presidential running mate. Governor Palin is a rock-solid pro-life advocate for the unborn.”
“We are elated that Sen. McCain has chosen Governor Sarah Palin,” said Susan Armacost, Legislative/PAC Director for Wisconsin Right to Life. “She is a dynamic and extremely popular governor. But it is in her private life that Governor Palin has shown extraordinary strength of character.”
Julie Schmit-Albin, Executive Director of Nebraska Right to Life: “Senator McCain knocked it out of the ballpark with his selection of Governor Sarah Palin. She will have broad appeal to the independent, individual spirit of Americans. This is a woman who is known for her personal integrity and she and her husband’s welcoming of their fifth child who has Downs Syndrome speaks volumes about her character.”
Great post, sheepdog. To the rational among us it will lay to rest the question of whether the Right to Lifers and hard core Christian Right folks will support her.....to the others it is pearls before swine.
miss johnson? is that you? still correcting people's syntax after retiring as a high school english teacher? excellent.
and btw, it'd be 'magical' not 'magic' garments.
I guess getting a job without those skills is kind of out of the question.
Are the welfare forms a "check-the-box" kind of thing or what?
I sure hope so.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.