“Probably not. The attackers were heavily armed and took cover right away. “

No one can know the unknowable of course, but the more unknowns and unpredictables thrown at a military operation, the more likely that the operation fails or at least gains less than it wanted.

Having valued personell killed by individuals, having safe havens created by the armed ctizens, time tables disrupted by armed individuals, areas denied access to by last ditch stands of armed indiviuals, fear, delay, and uncertainty placed in the minds of the attackers.

Me too but adapt and overcome.

http://digg.com/world_news/India_gun_control_enabled_Mumbai_massacre

Digg it.

Dugg.

At least they may have had a chance to fight back.

I suspect these cowardly bastards wouldn’t be so brave if a fusillade of bullets came at them.

It would not be too hard to obtain a license for a weapon in Mumbai.

What makes you say that?

One of our Indian FReepers said that gun possession is illegal in India.

BS. It’s not.

All you need to do is fill up a form at the nearest police station, and get a background check done.

Who’s the Indian FReeper who says a citizen can’t possess a firearm in India?

http://www.abhijeetsingh.com/arms/india/stats/

INDIA

Governance: Federal republic

FIREARMS OWNERSHIP
Percentage of Households with Firearms: Not known

Estimated Number of Firearms: There are an estimated 40 million firearms in India, the majority of which are illicit. India accounts for the majority of small arms in South Asia, which has an estimated 75 million firearms (63 million of which are in civilian possession). (3)

Types of Legal Firearms:

Relevant law - Arms Act, 1959 & Arms Rules, 1962.

Prohibited Bores

Prohibited Bores - Arms Rules, 1962 - Schedule I - categories I(b) and I(c).
MHA - sole licensing authority - w.e.f 8.8.1987.
Applications to be made through the local licensing authorities/State/U.T. Governments.
Non Prohibited Bores

Non-Prohibited Bores - Arms Rules, 1962 - Schedule I - category III.
District Magistrate/Collector - licensing authority - license for the whole State or part thereof.
All India or part license - granted by the State/U.T. Governments only.
Renewing authority - DM/Collector.
Applications in Form-A - available in the Collectorates/DM’s offices.

Purposes of Lawful Firearms Ownership: Target-shooting, protection of person or property and private security. Firearm ownership is not permitted for the purposes of collecting or for hunting of game for sport or food. (2)

DOMESTIC FIREARM LEGISLATION (2)
India’s domestic policy on small arms and light weapons is regulated under the Arms Act (1959) and Arms Rules (1962). Due to the gravity of the problem of the proliferation of illicit SALW (Small Arms Light Weapons) and their misuse in terrorist activities, India has, since 1987, withdrawn substantially the license issuing powers of State and District authorities - who may not, now, issue licenses for prohibited bore weapons. Since 1987, their powers have been limited to issuing licences for non-prohibited bore weapons and these licenses are valid for a limited geographical area. Licenses for possession of prohibited bore weapons may only be issued, under special conditions, by the Ministry of Home Affairs, Government of India. (4)

Licensing Requirements: All firearm owners must be licensed. Applicants must provide information regarding:

their date of birth;
the availability of a safe place to store the firearm and ammunition;
the purpose for which they require a firearm;
any previous criminal record or prohibition to possess a firearm. However, if the report of the police officer is not sent within the prescribed time limit (3 months), the licensing authority may grant the licence. (2)
The applicant must present photographic identification and pay the prescribed fee for that firearm. (2) Under the existing law, all civilians are required to get their weapon /s inspected once a year by a competent authority - this is also recorded in the licence. (4)

The licensing authority may also refuse the licence for which he will record the reasons. The licensing authority may refuse to grant the licence if the applicant:

is of unsound mind;
is below the age of 16;
is deemed by the licensing authority to be a threat to the security of the public peace;
has been sentenced on conviction of any offence involving violence to imprisonment for any term at any time during a period of 5 years after the expiration of the sentence;
has been ordered to execute a bond for keeping the peace or for good behaviour at any time during the term of the bond. (2) (6)
The licensing authorities maintain list of firearm owners and the firearms held by them. No centralised database is maintained about firearm ownership and the identification of firearm. Every police station maintains a register of the licence holders in its jurisdiction, with the name of the licensee, description of weapon and its purpose. This list is updated from time to time. The licences are renewed after the prescribed period mentioned in the license or 3 years, whichever is earlier. Any police officer or other officer specially empowered on this behalf by the Central Government can demand the production of licence from the person carrying firearms or ammunition. The licensee is required to inform the licensing authorities of any change of place of residence. (2)

Registration Requirements: All small arms manufactured in India are uniquely marked by stamping to indicate the registration number, manufacturer/factory of origin and the year of manufacture on one or more of the critical components of a small arm - the body, the breech block and the barrel - during the final stages of production. This applies to arms that are produced for private/personal use and those which are used by armed forces, police or paramilitary forces. Allotment of these registration numbers for the armed forces/police and para-military forces is done centrally and a record is maintained of these registration numbers along with the indent. This provides for a double check on the records. A record of each and every weapon manufactured by the factory is kept along with the information on the concerned dealer. Arms which do not bear specified identification marks may not be sold or transferred. Further, any person found in possession of a weapon without identification marks would be presumed to have removed/obliterated the marks unless proven otherwise. (4)

Training Requirements: No training certification is required. However, some state governments do require such a certificate from professional bodies. (2)

Storage Requirements: The firearm must be stored in the safe place described by the owner in his or her licence application. There is no regulation regarding safety in domestic custody by the owner except the initial assurance of availability of safe place to keep arms in his application for grant of licence. (2)

Penalties: Penalties for violations of firearm laws include:

Imprisonment varying from six months to life with or without fine.
Minimum imprisonment with a fine (prescribed in most of the cases of contraventions).
The death penalty (prescribed when someone has used prohibited firearms and prohibited ammunition or has contravened licensing conditions in any act leading to death). (2)
For the following infractions, punishment is the payment of a fine in addition to imprisonment for no less than three years and no more than seven years:

manufacturing, selling, transferring, converting, repairing, testing or possessing any arms or ammunition contravened by the Arms Act ;
shortens the barrel of a firearm or converts an imitation firearm into a firearm that contravenes the Arms Act ;
brings into, or takes out of, India, any arms or ammunition of any class or description in contravention of the Act . (6)

Thanks...DUGG ;-)

Who’s the Indian FReeper who says a citizen can’t possess a firearm in India?

Indian_Fighter_Kite

He/she has been posting updates over on the big thread.

(Sorry for the delay in responding. Took the dog for a walk.)

Oh, okay. Perhaps he/she was not aware.

Anyway, here are some tid-bits:

Monday, Feb 21, 2005

Village Defence Committee of Kashmiri Women
By - Kavita Suri

Kavita Suri is a journalist having 10 years' professional experience in journalism (both print and electronic). Presently working for The Statesman, one of the oldest English dailies of India as its Senior Staff Correspondent based in Jammu and Kashmir, she has worked with various newspapers starting from The Kashmir Times, The Tribune etc. She covers entire state, travels to the Line of Control, International Border and other conflict areas in all the three regions of Jammu, Kashmir and Ladakh of the troubled State. Kavita was also recently invited to United States for three weeks by the US state department on "US International Visitors Exchange Program". She has made many documentaries and films for Doordarshan's satellite Kashmir Channel and Jammu and Srinagar DDKs. As women have suffered badly in the strife-torn state due to ongoing conflict in Jammu and Kashmir, gender issues are very close to her heart. Her 'Echoes from the Mountains' would keep our readers updated about all these issues of the mountainous state and its surrounding areas.

Years of terrorism have spoiled the raw beauty of the valley of Kashmir. But the women in the valley have now decided to set things right in their own way. SAWF member, Kavita Suri brings you the tale of these courageous women through her 'Echoes From the Mountains'.

For the past one and a half decade of terrorism, the Kashmiri women faced the burnt and remained its worst victim. But not any longer. Incredible but it is true. The women of border district of Poonch-Rajouri in Jammu and Kashmir have picked up guns against terrorists and thus are protecting themselves from the militants and saving their honour and dignity.

This all women brigade - the first women Village Defence Committee (VDC) has been set up in the twin villages of Marah and Kulali bordering district Poonch. The scene is very different there as compared to other villages. One would find women with guns standing on the rooftops guarding their homes. The VDC members including women get together from cluster of houses and lay ambushes on routes of ingress to that cluster in order to save any civilian killings.

"Having suffered much on the hands of terrorists, a turning point came when in village Katha in this border district on 26 June last year, militants killed twelve women and children. Many incidents of sexual assaults and torture of many women and young girls were also reported. Thus, the women folk of the area who had been "mute sufferers of terrorism" made up their mind to fight against the terrorists. They showed their willingness to get weapons and training from the security forces to protect themselves and their children from militants' excesses," informed Major General G.D.Bakshi who heads the counter-insurgency Romeo Force in Rajouri.

This all-women VDC organizes security on its own for any civil gathering or a national or political event, keeps track of any strange and unauthorized person entering the village and keeps a check on his activities. Besides women, the children and old persons too, have shown willingness to use weapons against militants due to security at home.

The excesses of foreign terrorists on civilians and sexual assault on local women have forced the local population including women and children to pick up gun against them. Terrorists are forcing many locals to work as porters without any payment, committing rape on women and minor girls, utilizing the money, assets and resources of locals for their own use.

"Thus, a strong need was being felt to provide these innocent civilians with some type of self-defence which lead to generation of the idea of a fourth force multiplier," he added.

Village Defence Committee of Marah is just not simple organization but is a new force to reckon with. The VDC Marah now has become a role model for others. It has emerged as local force including trained women and children.

The Village Defence Committees were set up in Jammu and Kashmir in mid-nineties following a number of massacres of the innocent villagers in far flung villages of the troubled region. As the police or army pickets were far off from the civilian areas in these inaccessible villages resulting which the terrorists made these people as their soft targets, the concept of VDCs emerged wherein the civilians were imparted training for self defence and thus repulse terrorist-attack. The state police provided them weapons.

Till now, the VDC members were men in arms doing their routine work and had some defense power against terrorists. During day most of them remain outside their homes to earn livelihood, leaving female and children besides the old persons. But now, women have also joined the men in these VDC. To repulse any attack, the VDC women wing has been constituted.

"The VDC is organized in an infantry company pattern and to give them a sense of pride and belongingness the platoons and sections have been named after the local mohallas and this has worked wonders," said an army officer posted in the area adding presently there are four platoons and twelve sections and one section of women wing.

The training of VDC members is organized at a regular basis at security force company posts and the members are given weapon training which include firing, basic handling and cleaning of weapon, tactical training including minor tactics, battle craft and field craft drills to including stalking, crawling, fire and move.

http://www.sawf.org/newedit/edit02212005/kashmir.asp

Arms for Manipur villagers to keep insurgents at bay

May 4th, 2008 - 6:10 pm ICT by admin -

Imphal, May 4 (IANS) Authorities in Manipur, one of northeast India’s worst insurgency-hit states, have decided to arm villagers with weapons to enable them protect themselves from militants and control rebel activities, officials said Sunday. “The state cabinet has decided to train up to 500 villagers in the districts of Thoubal and Imphal West and provide them weapons after local residents rose in revolt against excesses committed by armed militants who have been killing civilians and extorting cash,” said Manipur Irrigation and Flood Control Minister N. Biren.

A militant group March 24 killed three people - two teenaged girls and a boy - at Heirok village, and later killed another man at Chajing. Following these incidents, villagers rose in revolt and pressed the government to give them weapons.

To start with, 300 men from Heirok and 200 from Chajing villages would be recruited, given a month’s training on handling weapons and will be provided with .303 rifles. They will also be paid a monthly consolidated salary of Rs.3,000 each.

The new force, whose personnel shall be called ’special police officers’, would be in place from the middle of June.

Manipur, bordering Myanmar, has over two dozen active rebel groups pushing demands ranging from secession from India to maximum autonomy.

No insurgent group from Manipur is engaged in peace talks with the Indian government so far, although around six rag-tag Kuki ethnic rebel outfits are on a ceasefire with the authorities.

The decision to provide weapons to civilians has drawn criticism from civil society and rights groups.

“The move will encourage bloodshed in Manipur among people of the same ethnic origin,” said a statement by the United Committee Manipur (UCM), a civil society combine.

http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/world-news/arms-for-manipur-villagers-to-keep-insurgents-at-bay_10044996.html

Dugg.

The Indians have always struck me as being level-headed individuals with a generally positive worldview and even temperament. Their gun laws don’t smack me as being excessive or unfair, and their registration requirements, while conflicting with my American viewpoint, don’t seem to be unbending or unbearable to the registrant. They don’t ban guns on appearance, and the serialization of their weaponry is pretty standard fare for any manufacturer.

India is a country of over a billion people, yet their gun codes (presuming this constitutes a bulk of them) are simple and easy to understand. American-style gun control would turn legalese into a maze that no sane person would wish to attempt to have a weapon for self-protection. Our government should take a note from the Indians who obviously understand that an armed citizenry is the best defense against foreign invasion, but looking at the Roman Empire, they fell due to the “death by a thousand cuts” from within.

Can’t wait for Zero to take office! Keep your powder dry.

To get a license is next to impossible because of this clause :

the purpose for which they require a firearm;

I know several ordinary people who own guns. In India.

It’s mostly those who’ve never tried to get a license, who keep harping that it’s next to impossible. In a country like India, you could write plenty of good reasons to fear for your safety, necessitating a gun for protection.

Will get back to you on this in a couple of days .