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Alan Keyes Tells Us Why He Questions Obama's [the Kenyan's] Presidency
Essence ^ | 11/21/08 | Cynthia Gordy

Posted on 11/27/2008 2:11:06 AM PST by solfour

The Constitution requires that, to be president, one must be a natural born citizen of the United States. Conservative Alan Keyes-who ran against President-elect Barack Obama in the 2004 race for the Illinois Senate, and in the 2008 U.S. presidential campaign (Keyes ran on the American Independent Party ticket)-is challenging whether that is the case for our new president. In November, Keyes filed a lawsuit against Obama, the California secretary of state, and others, to stop California from giving its electoral votes to Obama until a birth certificate is produced proving that he is indeed a natural born citizen. ESSENCE.com talked to Keyes about where he thinks Obama was born, why he questions the birth records already provided, and if this whole lawsuit is just an overblown case of sour grapes.

ESSENCE.COM: What exactly do you want to accomplish with this lawsuit?

... snip ...

The reason an issue has been raised about Obama is because of the simple question, which can be answered with a birth certificate that shows he was born in the United States, or born to parents who had the capacity to transmit U.S. citizenship. When the question was asked, he danced around it. If the most important office of the federal government can be occupied by someone who is not qualified under the United States Constitution, that destroys the authority of the Constitution. I think it's something that needs to be dealt with in a clear, straightforward way. Eventually the case will get to the Supreme Court, establish the facts, and clear the air. It's really all very simple.

(Excerpt) Read more at essence.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Front Page News; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: Hawaii
KEYWORDS: birth; birthcertificate; certifigate; getreal; giveitarest; keyes; lawsuit; makeitstop; obama; obamatransitionfile; obamatruthfile
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The day of reckoning approaches for Obama, the Kenyan, but Keyes makes an elementary error here. Obama, the Kenyan, is not natural born even if born in the US, because his father was a citizen of Kenya. To be natural born both your parents must have been citizens at the time of your birth. The Constitution is demanding undivided allegiance from birth, not geography.
1 posted on 11/27/2008 2:11:06 AM PST by solfour
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To: solfour
"To be natural born both your parents must have been citizens at the time of your birth."

Are you sure about that?

My first wife was a German citizen, and my son was born at Hahn Air Base in Germany, where I was stationed at the time. Later, we had a daughter born here in the USA.

Based on what you said, neither of my children are natural born citizens, yet, they are both classified as "natural born citizens" because they were both born in American hospitals and on American soil, and fathered by an American citizen.

Also, how does that explain "anchor babies", where illegals - citizens of Mexico - cross the border illegally to have a baby, which is then classified as a natural born citizen of the United States, qualifying it and it's parents with all the milk and honey they can scarf from the U.S. taxpayers? In that case neither parent was a citizen.
2 posted on 11/27/2008 2:25:13 AM PST by FrankR (Where's Waldo ([W]here [A]re [L]egal [D]ocuments [O]bama? (i.e. birth certificate))
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To: solfour

“Eventually the case will get to the Supreme Court, establish the facts, and clear the air. It’s really all very simple.”

I think you are too optimistic about this. The Supreme Court will do everything it can to avoid adjudicating this issue—disqualifying an legitimately elected president (especially the first black one) after he has won is not something any justice is going to want to do. For Keyes as a plaintiff, there are a lot of ways for the Court to avoid it—for example, there is no case or controversy as between Keyes and Obama. Even if Obama is disqualified, it doesn’t help Keyes at all. He cannot prove he would win any electoral votes if Obama were disqualified—in fact it’s immensely unlikely.

The electors have been elected. We don’t really elect a president. We elect electors. They elect the president. By custom, they vote for the guy who won their state. But they don’t have to. They could elect me if they wanted to although this set of electors is more likely to elect William Ayers than me. But if Obama is disqualified, it doesn’t affect the validity of the election of the electors. Yet the relief Keyes is seeking is to prevent validly elected electors from being seated.

In any event, BO is only a tiny part of the problem. Congress is the biggest problem and noone these electors are going to select is going to put the brakes on Congress.

We’re hosed as a nation for the next four years regardless what happens on this issue.


3 posted on 11/27/2008 2:28:13 AM PST by ModelBreaker
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To: solfour

That remains to be seen.

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=169&invol=649

U.S. v. WONG KIM ARK, 169 U.S. 649 (1898)


4 posted on 11/27/2008 2:31:34 AM PST by truthfreedom
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To: ModelBreaker
We’re hosed as a nation for the next four years regardless what happens on this issue.

This isn't about four years. This is about more than two hundred years of the constitution being the underlying legal authority of this nation. As horrific as the election of Obama is, the constitutional question is ten thousand times more important to us as a country.

MM (in TX)

5 posted on 11/27/2008 2:45:09 AM PST by MississippiMan
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To: ModelBreaker
Yet the relief Keyes is seeking is to prevent validly elected electors from being seated.

Please elaborate. It was my understanding that Keyes intention was to prevent the electors from casting their votes for a man who is ineligible for the job.

6 posted on 11/27/2008 2:49:49 AM PST by NurdlyPeon (Sara Palin: Americas' last, best hope for survival.)
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To: FrankR

I believe the interpretation of “natural born” that is most accurate and that will prevail among those members of the Court who care about the original meaning of the term, is that you are born into undivided allegiance to the United States. That cannot be the case if you are born simultaneously the citizen of another country and therefore subject to its laws.

Depending on the laws of Germany and the US at that time, your son is probably a citizen from birth of the US, but also of Germany, and therefore not natural born.

There is some question about whether natural born requires both parents to be citizens or just the father, but my guess is the Court would opt for both, regarding the greater importance of the father as an obsolete idea.

If your wife was a citizen of the US at the time of your daughter’s birth, she would be natural born, even if your wife continued to possess German nationality.

All IMHO.

Leo Donofrio, whose lawsuit will be reviewed by the full Court on Dec. 5th, maintains that to be natural born, you must have two citizen parents AND be born on US soil, but I do not believe the Court will accept that narrow an interpretation. If it does, then your son is definitely not natural born.


7 posted on 11/27/2008 3:02:19 AM PST by solfour
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To: NurdlyPeon

I am not sure how valid they are if the electors are casting those votes for a man who is not Constitutionally eligible. If, for example, a Chinese gymnast was found to be ineligible to participate in the Olympics because of a violation of the age restrictions; then would it be a proper argument for the Chinese to then say, “She received her scores and her medals from valid judges who gave her valid scores therefore the rules are nullified, suspended and invalid.

Why have any Constitutional requirements at all if they carry no weight? Are they rather Constitutional suggestions? Does the Constitution merely make capricious suggestions concerning requirements? I agree with you on this.


8 posted on 11/27/2008 3:12:10 AM PST by WildcatClan (AND THOSE DOESNT BRAIN JUST GO. ---- Cecile Noe)
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To: truthfreedom

There is a difference between being a citizen from birth and being a natural born citizen. The Wong Kim Ark case is about whether he was a citizen, not whether he was natural born.

No anchor babies are “natural born” citizens under the traditional meaning of the term. As for whether they are citizens from birth, that’s a different question, about which I do not have a strong opinion.


9 posted on 11/27/2008 3:13:38 AM PST by solfour
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To: solfour
"If it does, then your son is definitely not natural born. "

I think you are mistaken, as I was told at the time of his birth that being born on an American military installation makes it "American soil", and only the Father needed to be a citizen of the US to make the child a Natual born citizen.

We possess an "International Birth Certificate" as well as an America Birth certificate for him and he maintains all the rights of any other Natural born citizen. He votes, he as a passport, and has registered for selective service. He is now 41 years old and has never been questioned about his citizenship.

I think your intrepretation of this has nothing to do with the military aspect of being born overseas. If so, there are thousands of military dependents roaming around who think they are citizens...what a shock for them.

Also, there is the case of all of the little kids left behind in Viet Nam by American Servicemen. The prevailing concensus in the 60-70's were that these kids were "American" because they had "American" fathers...who obviously didn't claim them, but fathered them nonetheless.
10 posted on 11/27/2008 3:19:58 AM PST by FrankR (Where's Waldo ([W]here [A]re [L]egal [D]ocuments [O]bama? (i.e. birth certificate))
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To: solfour

I hope yours is the interpretation the court takes (if they take it up, which they should). I’ve seen “the father has to be a citizen” and “as long as you’re born there”


11 posted on 11/27/2008 3:20:28 AM PST by truthfreedom
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To: FrankR

Your argument is fine and well-stated. However, American military installations are not American soil. I must preface this by saying if anyone’s child deserves to be a “natural born” or any other type of citizen, it should be the children of those who have served.

This is not about what you or I think is right or fair, but rather what the law says regarding constitutional requirements for the presidency. I think, as best I can interpret, that your child would be considered “natural born” by virtue of your being an American citizen. There are, however, a lot of references to “parents”, plural, and that is where it really gets complicated. I would be fine with the Father being a US citizen as the fulfillment of the necessary requirement for “natural born”. It is hard to know how a court or Congress will interpret the law. They managed to create a right to abortion out of whole cloth so anything is within the scope of possibilities.


12 posted on 11/27/2008 3:38:27 AM PST by WildcatClan (AND THOSE DOESNT BRAIN JUST GO. ---- Cecile Noe)
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To: solfour
More Information:

PURPOSE: To define the term “natural born Citizen” as used in the Constitution to include three categories:

(1) Any person born in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof,

(2) Any person born outside the United States to a U.S. citizen parent or parents who are eligible to transmit citizenship, and

(3) Any person adopted by the age of 18 by a U.S. citizen parent or parents who are otherwise eligible to transmit citizenship to a biological child.



This bill clarifies that the term “natural born Citizen” includes children born outside the United States to citizen parents. This provision provides comfort and certainty to members of the American military and foreign services, as well as expatriate families that their children are natural born citizens.
13 posted on 11/27/2008 3:41:32 AM PST by FrankR (Where's Waldo ([W]here [A]re [L]egal [D]ocuments [O]bama? (i.e. birth certificate))
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To: All

Obama is three strikes OUT.

We just need to watch the umpires.


14 posted on 11/27/2008 3:47:57 AM PST by Eye of Unk (Aleutica, the new name of Free Alaska)
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To: FrankR

FrankR. Just sent you FReepmail.


15 posted on 11/27/2008 3:50:03 AM PST by Shady Ray
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To: solfour

Hallelulah! Talk about it Mr. Keyes. Keep talking.

Prayers for Mr. Keyes.


16 posted on 11/27/2008 4:01:54 AM PST by autumnraine (Churchill: " we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall never surrender")
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To: FrankR

If you were only 18, then yes, your son would not be a German citizen. Unless the “military base” issue bypasses that.


17 posted on 11/27/2008 4:02:36 AM PST by autumnraine (Churchill: " we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall never surrender")
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To: Shady Ray
Why has Obama spent $800,000.00 in legal fees fighting cases filed requiring proof of natural birth? I have read this but can not confirm.
18 posted on 11/27/2008 4:04:18 AM PST by CHEE (Stink, Steam and All)
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To: FrankR

See that law in effect at the time Obama was born.

4. December 24, 1952 to November 13, 1986
If, at the time of your birth, both your parents were U.S. citizens and at least one had a prior residence in the United States, you automatically acquired U.S. citizenship with no conditions for retaining it.

If only one parent was a U.S. citizen at the time of your birth, that parent must have resided in the United States for at least ten years, at least five of which had to be after the age of 16. There are no conditions placed on retaining this type of citizenship. If your one U.S. citizen parent is your father and you were born outside
of marriage, the same rules apply if your father legally legitimated you before your 21st birthday and you were unmarried at the time. If legitimation occurred after November 14, 1986, your father must have
established paternity prior to your 18th birthday, either by acknowledgment or by court order, and must have stated in writing that he would support you financially until your 18th birthday.


19 posted on 11/27/2008 4:04:40 AM PST by autumnraine (Churchill: " we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall never surrender")
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To: ModelBreaker

If he is found to be fraudulently President, he would be impeached, forced to resign and Biden would be President. Which still sucks, but at least it wouldn’t be a Consitutional crisis.


20 posted on 11/27/2008 4:05:45 AM PST by autumnraine (Churchill: " we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall never surrender")
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