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To: o_zarkman44

On the other hand, we haven’t seen any energy independence from the use of ethanol and it complexifies when the answer is in simplifying. By going to the better gasoline now and then moving swiftly into the better, cheaper, cleaner, smaller refining that we can then use, combined with drilling in the areas we have foolishly forbidden and increasing the production of the total amount of oil in formations, particularly surface formations with processes better than the inefficient, environmentally destructive Stark hot water process used in Canada we can be energy independent in a few years and even be net exporters to crucial allies in Asia. In particular with regard to the mining of all the oil (as opposed to the 33-40 percent we get by conventional pumping and drilling) the government has made a complete mess by engaging in the other great subsidized boondoggle, oil shale. But complexifying and endless large subsidies, even if they create no energy independence, do create endless subsidies, and a built in lobby for not solving the problem.


151 posted on 12/03/2008 12:40:53 PM PST by AmericanVictory
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To: AmericanVictory

I agree about subsidys. Any form of alternative fuel not capable of making it on it’s own merit is bad economics.

Most of the subsidys for ethanol production are only in loans and loan guarantees. Our state Missouri has a loan program for ethanol production startups. Some would call that a subsidy I suppose. Corn growers get no subsidys because the price is above parity (cost of production), thanks to ethanol.

Our US farm program (very deceptive description) does have a few subsidys for certain crops, product development and genetic studys. but the biggest subsidy in the USDA is known as food stamps and US surplus commodities provided for little or no cost for school lunches.
there is also a CRP (conservation reserve program) that pays farms to contract for idle ground. The ground has to be mowed once a year. supposedly it has benefits to wildlife conservation. Even with that land out of production, farms continue to break production records.

I am all for oil and coal. Oil shale. coal gas. There is no reason private enterprise will not produce those products for consumers. But since the government grants the permission slip to develop coal power plants, nuclear power, and oil and gas drilling they ultimately control the supply of energy. America could have been nearly energy self sufficient 30 years ago if not for environmental laws and frivolous lawsuits by the Sierra Club and their ilks, blocking oil drilling and exploration in ANWR, costal California, florida, and elsewhere.

We are doomed to fail in energy self sufficiency because the government’s energy plan reaches no further ahead than an election cycle. And since government holds the permission slip for development, we have no plan other than Ethanol. And since 10% ethanol based fuel has powered my vehicles over a half million miles in the last 30 years, and I have seen how ethanol has helped our local economy, it’s far better than the nothing else plan.


155 posted on 12/03/2008 1:03:31 PM PST by o_zarkman44 (Since when is paying more, but getting less, considered Patriotic?)
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