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To: Neoliberalnot

You’re missing the point. Ethanol does not travel well. Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada and California do not have the water to grow corn or any other crop for ethanol. So that’s a very large part of the country where ethanol makes no sense at all from the get go.

Further, as Professor Pimentel at Cornell and other researchers have shown, ethanol produces very little net energy gain and does not help reduce ethanol pollution.

In response to having Pimentel and others expose the truth about ethanol our D of A has attacked them as Stalin attacked scientists in the U.S.S.R. who would not say what he wanted.

I repeat, stop helping the other side in this war; we can’t win it if instead of becoming energy independent we waste our time on expensive, subsidized boondoggles.

Further, why make a complex fuel that is so destructive and provides so little net energy gain when we can use a better formulated gasoline in our cars as is that would be far cheaper to make, burns cleanly, enormously increases mileage and because it burns stochiometically, enormously reduces engine wear where ethanol does engines great harm?

And how are you going to produce ethanol in the East, by taking back the suburbs you look down on?

We need to win the war, not engage in counter-productive boondoggling.


128 posted on 11/30/2008 8:46:09 AM PST by AmericanVictory
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To: AmericanVictory

Pimentel is an entomologist, a field that does not qualify one as an expert in ETOH energetics. Here is Pimentel’s description of his program: The research spans the field of basic population ecology, genetics, ecological and economic aspects of pest control, biological control, energy use and conservation, genetic engineering, sustainable agriculture, soil and water conservation, and natural resource management and environmental policy.

There are many scientists in the field of energy and ag production of crops for ETOH that would heartily disagree with Pimentel. There is about a 20-25% net energy gain with ETOH produced at 400 gallons/acre of corn. And again, all of those vilifying ETOH production conveniently leave out the high protein feed that remains for livestock plus the organic matter from the cornstalks adding carbon to the soil. It isn’t just ETOH that is produced.

I am not helping the other side—the other side is part of the fight against ETOH and the by-products. Please tell me about this cleaner fuel you refer to in a generic sense—I don’t know what you are talking about.


129 posted on 12/01/2008 7:06:55 AM PST by Neoliberalnot ((Hallmarks of Liberalism: Ingratitude and Envy))
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To: AmericanVictory

“Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada and California do not have the water to grow corn or any other crop for ethanol.”

True, nor should they attempt to grow corn. But offshore California has vast oil reserves they could utilize and profit from if they would quit strangling themselves.

The Pimmential study is over a decade old and was the least objective of the 4 or 5 scientific studys about the same time.

Texas has plenty of oil and they are sharing their oil with the rest of America whenever the government allows them to.
New Mexico, Arizona, and Nevada should grow nothing. But they have a solar exposure capable of generating large amounts of electricity. The east has vast amounts of coal capable of fueling automobiles and power plants, if the government would let them utilize the resource. The East also has wind and tidal potential.

My point is, ethanol is not everyones alternative. If we divide America into 3 quadrants, each one is capable of delivering enough self contained energy to significantly reduce oil imports and increase domestic energy.
The key is what the government enables the people, and their investors to do. Since government has the permission slip every process has to be approved by our great poly scientists in Washington Dunce Cap.


142 posted on 12/01/2008 1:18:58 PM PST by o_zarkman44 (Since when is paying more, but getting less, considered Patriotic?)
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