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To: mlo
As I've already explained, I was asking you to actually prove 1 + 1 = 2

And I have done that.

Saying "we can't know" to an *unknowable* question isn't throwing up your hands. It's being honest and rational. That's all I'm trying to get across.

And how does one determine something is unknowable without trying? Those "made up" answers are nonetheless answers to the question posed. And "by definition" those "unknowable" things are called beliefs. Our Declaration of Independence includes some of those beliefs. "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness...."

273 posted on 11/26/2008 11:15:58 AM PST by AndrewC
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To: AndrewC
Sorry, this was a typo.

"As I've already explained, I was asking you to actually prove 1 + 1 = 2. "

It should have read, "As I've already explained, I WASN'T asking you to actually prove 1 + 1 = 2."

276 posted on 11/26/2008 11:32:10 AM PST by mlo
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To: AndrewC
"And how does one determine something is unknowable without trying?"

By understanding the question.

If everything we can observe is causally related to the origin of the universe, but no information exists to be observed that can tell us what predates the singularity, if those things are true, then what happened before the singularity is unknowable.

If it is unknowable, that doesn't mean you get to insert your own favorite story in its place. It means you can't know.

Beliefs are not the same thing as knowledge. People have many beliefs. Some are quite absurd. Belief doesn't make them true.

277 posted on 11/26/2008 11:38:29 AM PST by mlo
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