What is fuzzy about the expression “emerged over thousands of years of human behavior”? It is rather juvenile to think that our entire morality just popped into existence in one person. Our political system, our sciences, our art, our civilization didn't just happen all at once, so what is so confusing about the idea that as humans gradually moved from tribal to community cohabitation that certain attitudes and behaviors would develop?
It is rather simplistic to say as you do that if I can't come up with the name of the one person who suddenly discovered morality (which I never claimed to have because I never claimed such a person existed) than the only answer is that a being who somehow was never born and has always existed dropped it on our heads like a rock. It's like people who believe UFO's are alien spaceships--just because I can't explain what that light in the sky is, how does one make the leap to saying "Ah ha, an alien spaceship!" without any evidence at all?
One only need look at how human behavior, ethics and community has evolved in the period of recorded history to see that people do indeed change their behavior over time to accomodate different ideas as acceptable and others are not in terms of human behavior. As I said previously, you don't have to ACCEPT the point of view I have, but to say you don't even UNDERSTAND it shows one is either stupid (which I don't believe you are) or simply willfully ignoring alternate points of view.
Your mistake, I think, is refusing to budge from your rather odd idea that the ONLY conceivable origin of morality is if one single human was given the idea as a gift from above.
I'm not trying to force you to believe my position, which is something many religious folks do try to do. I'm just trying to get you to accept that an idea you may not agree with is not so crazy as you seem to want to believe it is. Based on thousands of years of human civilization, which even you must agree shows we have evolved in our thinking about MANY things (humanity didn't just accept Christianity in one weekend), I'm perfectly comfortable in believing that the concept of morality (which you must agree has MANY interpretations, many of which we can both agree are abhorent) is the sum of centuries of thinking, action, and exchange of thoughts and ideas.
In comparison, claiming that an invisible god just dropped the idea of morality from the sky seems silly to me.
DARK-
“What is fuzzy about the expression “emerged over thousands of years of human behavior”? It is rather juvenile to think that our entire morality just popped into existence in one person. Our political system, our sciences, our art, our civilization didn’t just happen all at once, so what is so confusing about the idea that as humans gradually moved from tribal to community cohabitation that certain attitudes and behaviors would develop?”
Fuzzy is ‘emerged’. Fuzzy is that you are attempting to relate science and art and pol systems and civilizations - every one of which can be touched and seen and developed over time out of the imagination of our minds.
Morality (knowledge of good and evil) emerging from wild ape-dom in a single ‘animal’ set is not and cannot be related to the items you list here.
No, I’m not literally asking you to name the person who came up with morality. You are missing the intent. You are saying morality emerged from wild animal ape-dom and has ‘evolved’ to what it is today.
You jumped out on me by saying ‘our entire morality popped into existence in one person’. No, I didn’t say that. I said that it didn’t come from no where. It had to start in someone somewhere and in fact, someone did have to start that ball rolling at some point. It didn’t happen randomly, simultaneously all over the place either.
In the same way the elements that make up this universe didn’t come from just no where, neither did morality. Are you going to say the universal elements emerged over time from nothing too?
“Your mistake, I think, is refusing to budge from your rather odd idea that the ONLY conceivable origin of morality is if one single human was given the idea as a gift from above.”
You hit the nail on the head. Except that it is not a mistake and really not so odd when there are millions who believe precisely that morality did ‘come from above’. The mistake that I hope you don’t find ‘odd’ later on is in those whose pride and intelligence exceeds the gift offered to all who will choose the gift.
Here it is in all its fundamentality:
Adam and Eve made a choice and ate of the tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil in the Garden of Eden. Yes, then...the knowledge of good and evil did drop right out of the sky because God made it so. Don’t forget that it was their choice.
You....are not willing to believe (so far in your life) that God had man write these things, let alone that those things written in the Bible are even remotely true.
It is truly simple. You either believe it, or you don’t.
And I’m not forcing anything on you. You hang here an aweful lot. The choice is and has always been yours in what you will believe. All I want you to do is be exposed to maybe one thought you haven’t considered in life’s quest for knowledge.
None of this has any relevance to my acceptance or unwillingness to hear alternative views that you keep bringing up.
There is truth and there is everything else. Bible based faith for the believer is truth. If God does exist - uh yes he does - then nothing you or I believe will change his plan. We either accept his plan out of love for the truth and his son or not. The choice for us is what are we doing with our brief lives?
If I take the standpoint that I believe in all God says he is and does - what have I to lose for placing my faith in him? What is so valuable about this life that so many are willing to ignore a gift from God?
It all seems silly? What will you do when you find out is isn’t silly?