Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Lies In The Wind
11/21/08 | knowseverything

Posted on 11/21/2008 7:10:57 AM PST by knowseverything

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-45 next last
To: knowseverything

Us: But Uncle, we’re already in a hole so deep we can’t climb out!

Uncle: Just shut up and keep diggin.


21 posted on 11/21/2008 9:04:50 AM PST by DonnerT
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: white17x
So lets plant more trees instead of pursuing this windfarm boondoggle

If it's more effective (e.g. economically)- sure.

22 posted on 11/21/2008 9:16:49 AM PST by Freelance Warrior (A Russian.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: knowseverything

Plugging in the energy from wind farms into the existing power grid has the potential of forcing the BPA to look at curtailing hydroelectric power production which could seriously impact the survival of the salmon...twice now the BPA has had to issue cutback orders to wind farms because of too much power and with the Arlington Wind Farm due to be online next year the problem will get worse. I know it’s kinda trivial info, but, it’s all I had.


23 posted on 11/21/2008 9:21:08 AM PST by crazyhorse691 (Obama is Americas new Forrest Gump...but with an oversized ego and ears.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: crazyhorse691

The only real “solution” to this problem is constructing batteries to store the extremely expensive, subsidized, unnecessary wind power. However these batteries are even more costly than the windmills that make them necessary. This is just another typical example of the gov’t creating problems that were worse than the original problem they were intended to solve, aka, The Law of Unintended Consequences, at work!


24 posted on 11/21/2008 9:32:27 AM PST by appeal2 (Brilliance is typically the act of an individual, but great stupidity is reserved for the Gov't)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: knowseverything
The biggest problem with the renewable, “green power” industry today is its blatant dishonesty to the public......it is being sold to the masses as a complete and better solution, when that is simply not true.

As a Mechanical Engineer who has 15 years of his 20 year career to date in Power Generation (coal and nuclear), I applaud your article.

Too many people are convinced "Green", "Sustainable", and "Renewable Energy" are silver bullet fixes that have been slighted for no good reason.

The fact is, these "solutions" would have been embraced to the fullest if they were economical and reliable. Does anyone really believe that a utility company would NOT build wind and solar power installation if they could make reliable power for cheaper and with less maintenance than coal or nuclear stations? Anyone who believes this has never worked in a coal or nuclear station. The amount of money and effort required to keep them running economically and reliably is staggering. If a windmill could do it better, they would build them and mothball the central generating facilities. The fact is, a windmill cannot do it and this is why things are the way they are.

25 posted on 11/21/2008 9:39:01 AM PST by SteamShovel (Global Warming, the New Patriotism)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: bert
If they can’t run they can’t amortize the capitalization and the project has negative return.

If it is calculated using the subsidies and tax benefits, it doesn't need to return anything in operations.

It is the tax shelters that people want.

26 posted on 11/21/2008 10:06:36 AM PST by Dan(9698)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: RC2
The only way I see out of this is for a small home electric generation system. Like small generators that are extremely efficient.

In my Northern Tool catalog they have a 1600 running Watt generator which uses 1 gallon of gas for 3 hours of runtime or 4.8 kWh per gallon. A bigger generator uses 6 gallons of gas for 8 hours at half load (3000 Watts) or 4 kWh per gallon. A big 15kW gasoline generator uses 10 gallons to produce 6.75kW for 8 hours or 5.4 kWH per gallon.

I think the scaling would continue pretty well and especially well if you could figure out a way to distribute the power use evenly through the day in a small community. In the more limited situations of home use, you should be able to to turn down or even turn off the generator for extended periods. Even with those measures, the electricity will be quite expensive, 37 cents a kWh for the big generator with gas at $2/gallon.

27 posted on 11/21/2008 1:05:01 PM PST by palmer (Some third party malcontents don't like Palin because she is a true conservative)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: knowseverything

Excellent. I think you are being generous about the cost of wind...but I understand where you are going.

You should write about solar and the cost of that nonsense. I think at best it can run at 15% capacity in most places.


28 posted on 11/21/2008 1:07:43 PM PST by I got the rope
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Freelance Warrior

Uhhh...what’s a reasonable level? We know that the current level is not the optimum level for plant growth. To do this we would need to nearly triple the current amount of CO2 in the atmosphere.


29 posted on 11/21/2008 1:11:09 PM PST by I got the rope
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: Freelance Warrior

There is no evidence that CO2 is a pollutant. None.


30 posted on 11/21/2008 1:12:37 PM PST by I got the rope
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: I got the rope
Uhhh...what’s a reasonable level?

What about optimal for the man to feel the best?

31 posted on 11/21/2008 1:18:37 PM PST by Freelance Warrior (A Russian.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: Freelance Warrior

Why?


32 posted on 11/21/2008 1:30:01 PM PST by Old Professer (The critic writes with rapier pen, dips it twice, then writes again.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: Freelance Warrior

Why not a plant and marine life to feel the best?


33 posted on 11/21/2008 1:34:16 PM PST by I got the rope
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: Old Professer
Why?

Since this is the primary motivation for all man's activites, including scientifical, social or business. No reason for CO2 ratio to be treated differently.

34 posted on 11/21/2008 1:36:34 PM PST by Freelance Warrior (A Russian.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: I got the rope
Why not a plant and marine life to feel the best?

Because that's people's talk and business :) Let them feel good enough to be that numerous to keep us satisfied with our environment.

35 posted on 11/21/2008 1:39:59 PM PST by Freelance Warrior (A Russian.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: Freelance Warrior
No reason for CO2 ratio to be treated differently.

What about O2(a by-product of electrolysis when producing hydrogen for fuel)? Do you consider that to be pollution too?

36 posted on 11/21/2008 1:51:41 PM PST by palmer (Some third party malcontents don't like Palin because she is a true conservative)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: palmer
What about O2(a by-product of electrolysis when producing hydrogen for fuel)? Do you consider that to be pollution too?

Pollution emerges when something is left outside a closed ecological cycle. O2 is released at the electrolysis process, but it's consumed in a H2 burning process. So we have a cycle: 2H20 (electrolysis)-->2H2+O2-->2H2O (burning). If we have an alike cycle producing energy for the electrolysis, we have an unchanging (non being polluted environment). If we look at the conventional combustion engine, the same cycle can be maintained if we can convert the CO2 and H20 produced at combustion into oil (or petrol).

37 posted on 11/21/2008 2:08:33 PM PST by Freelance Warrior (A Russian.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: palmer

Continuation: so the O2 from electrolysis isn’t a polluting agent. CO2 from our caloric engines is a different issue, since it’s not balanced with th O2 generation done by the plants.


38 posted on 11/21/2008 2:12:28 PM PST by Freelance Warrior (A Russian.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: palmer

A friend just left and we were talking about this subject. He suggested a diesel generator. He said an 8 or 10KW would run the whole house but....watch what you are using. Running the washing machine, micro wave and stove could be the only problems. You can also store more diesel than gas.....legally. At least in California.


39 posted on 11/21/2008 3:03:32 PM PST by RC2
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: RC2
He said an 8 or 10KW would run the whole house but....watch what you are using. Running the washing machine, micro wave and stove could be the only problems.

My stove is propane and microwave is just 500W or so. My biggest problem would be my electric water heater. I think the best option would be instant-on propane.

40 posted on 11/21/2008 3:07:48 PM PST by palmer (Some third party malcontents don't like Palin because she is a true conservative)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-45 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson