Not hate, truth. If you saw a man beating a homeless guy up and told him to stop because he was committing a crime, would that be hate speech or truth?
Some of what I'm about to write will sound harsh, but I mean it in love. I'm trying to show you the right path, just as Frederick Douglass showed people the path away from slavery by telling them things about the lives of slaves that they would rather have ignored.
I know this is only going to cause me to beat my head against a wall because the people on here are beyond reason, but you people are so frightening. Obama and millions of Americans (which outnumber the prolife people) believe in CHOICE!!!
The choice you say you believe in is the choice to carve a small child into pieces and throw her in the trash.
That is the reality of the situation. Calling it something else will not change that.
We don't think small children should have their limbs ripped off and thrown in the trash. That view is frightening to you?
Do you think it's just choice when a gang does a drive-by, or a husband beats his wife to death? Was it just choice when the KKK lynched black men or when Matthew Sheppard was beaten to death?
You know what's frightening to me? Dumpsters full of dead little kids...our nation pretending it's all right and that women should feel good about it and fight for it...and God's wrath. That wrath frightened Thomas Jefferson, too. "I tremble for my nation when I reflect that God is just."
Do you really believe we can kill a million children a year and remain worthy of freedom?
We don’t like imposing our values or beliefs on other people
Of course you do. In spades!
First, you impose death on a small child, an expression of the belief that she should not be born.
Second, pro-choice lawmakers (such as the governor of Illinois) have forced pharmacists to dispense the morning after pill and other drugs that they believe kill innocent humans.
Third, whenever a state passes a law requiring women to get even the most basic information about the abortion procedure before obtaining one, pro -"choice" organizations fight to keep women in the dark about the risks and scientific facts. Don't bother the poor little dears with the truth!
Fourth, the president-elect you're so proud of has promised to sign a law that will force me and other taxpayers to pay for abortions. Would you like to be forced to fund an anti-abortion outfit like Operation Rescue with your tax dollars? Would you like to be forced to help kill human beings that you believe are innocent?
Fifth, the law Obama has promised to sign (the "Freedom of Choice Act," look it up) also removes the conscience protections for medical professionals who don't want to perform abortions. In other words, they will be forced to either perform abortions or lose their job and/or license to practice. And he promised to sign it as his first act in office.
You don't impose your values? Puleeze.
we believe history shows choice is the American way
The right to choose, circa 1911.
We aren’t interested in the “Handmaid’s Tale” scenerio.
Oh. Well, neither are we. Hey, what scenarios from goofy novels with science fiction elements are you interested in using as a guide for our national life by? Maybe one of the Star Wars novels or 2001: A Space Odyssey?
In all seriousness, do you really think your views on this issue are credible if you think the only reason someone would oppose cutting a kid to pieces is because they want to have a fundamentalist theocracy where fertile women are forced to hump Robert Duvall? Really?
The reason prolifers are so insane about this issue is because of their religion. They believe to them that as soon as it is conceived it is crying and wearing diapers, and that it is murder.
We believe it's human. Show me the religious content in this:
"Human development is the process of growing to maturity. In biological terms, this entails growth from a one-celled zygote to an adult human being."
That's from the Wikipedia entry for "Human Development."
Now, either you believe that (and the widely accepted scientific view that a zygote is the start of human life) is a load of crap, or you believe in killing humans below a certain age or size for the convenience of other humans. Which is it?
But I see their point only as a choice for themselves.
Well, the problem with that is that science says otherwise:
"Conception, defined as the union of a single egg and sperm, marks the beginning of a pregnancy."--"Maternal Child Nursing Care" by Wong, Perry and Hockenberry, page 133.
If conception using a woman's egg and a man's sperm marks the beginning of a pregnancy, what is she pregnant with? A fish? A chimp? A basketball?
If I see what science sees, and you see something that can be thrown in the trash, who is "choosing" to see something for him or herself? I think that would be you, Juliet.
but don’t impose your beliefs on others,
Shall we repeal the laws against drive-by shootings? If not, why not? Aren't we imposing our views on these people who believe that kiling another person can solve their problems?
put all that energy in teaching contraception to teens, or being mentors to children to work towards being a good example in their lives.
So, you really believe that pro-lifers do nothing to help the lives of women and children? Ever heard of the 1,050 ministries of Carenet just for starters? My local CareNet prgnancy center helps poor women with bills and finding jobs, offers parental training, mentors young people, teaching women how to avoid unwanted pregnancies...everything you have challenged us to do and more.
Oh, and then there's this pregnancy/HIV prevention and youth mentoring program. That same organization has been helping victims of war in Sudan for about two decades, IIRC.
Now, could you please point me to a soup kitchen run by Planned Parenthood?
If you think teens will stop having sex because abortion is made illegal,
Juliet, I suspect you are young and not finished with your education, so here's a free lesson in rhetoric. (See, I'm mentoring a young woman, ain't I great?) What you've presented here is called a strawman argument. No one in the pro-life movement believes what you've just said is one of our core beliefs.
Let me ask, Juliet: Inner city kids didn't stop joining gangs just because shooting a guy in a fellow gang is illegal. Should we make murder legal because laws against it failed to stop gang violence, or should we keep murder illegal?
If you really believe in Jesus, then you would let people be judged by Him only.
So,if I found out that a group of people was planning to kill 1 million children next year, I should just sit at home, not worry about it and let Jesus judge them? Or should I take action to stop it?
But hey, a million is such a hard number to comprehend. What about just one person?
If you saw a man raping a woman, would you try to stop it, or walk past and let Jesus judge him?
If your next door neighbor was abusing his son, beating him mercilessly every Saturday night, would you call your state's chld abuse hotline, or just let Jesus judge him?
If I went to your bank and drained all your accounts and spent it on really cool stuff for myself, would you report me to the police or just let Jesus judge me? And, if you chose to forgive me and let it go the first time, what would you do when I took your money the next week, and the next week after that?
Should the people who fought slavery have just left the whole thing alone and let Jesus judge the slaveholders? How about the folks who fought Jim Crow?
And have you lived by what you preach? Aren't you judging us right now? And do you really make it a habit to remain totally neutral on all human behaviors, letting Jesus Christ sort out which ones are good or bad? You've never called anyone a bitch, or a jerk, or said they were doing something wrong? You've never tried to reverse something you thought was an injustice? If someone used the N word in front of you, what would you do?
If you want more babies in dumpsters, more women dying in back alley abortion clinics, then impose your beliefs
Can you provide any evidence that more women died from botched abortions before Roe vs. Wade than after? I know you can't respond here, but why don't you look into those statistics? I think you'll be surprised.
And Juliet...why is any number of babies thrown in dumpsters acceptable to you?
Would you be OK with throwing, say, 50,000 dead black toddlers in dumpsters a year? I'm sure you wouldn't be, but if you were, what would people call you? Wouldn't they say you were racist and in favor of genocide? Yet approximately 300,000 black infants are thrown in dumpsters every year, and you say those of us who want it to stop are some sort of fascist haters. Does that make sense to you? Really?
You wouldn’t want me doing that [telling us what to do] to you!
You're doing it right now.
Don’t believe me that we outnumber you? Look at the results of the election.
In 1852, the number of people who voted for a pro-slavery candidate for President was much greater than the number who voted for the anti-slavery candidate. The older, more experienced war hero only won the electoral votes of 4 states and the younger (only a year older than Barack Obama is now), handsome Northern Democrat surged to victory. The people who liked slavery (or at least didn't care) outnumbered those who hated the evil of one man owning another.Should the abolitionists have given up? And do we have slavery anymore?
In 1952, segregation wasn't a big presidential campaign issue, but we can be sure that more Americans were OK with segregation (or at least, didn't care much) than not. Heck, the Democrats even felt safe running a segregationist vice presidential candidate on their ticket. Should Rosa Parks have stayed in her seat because she was outnumbered? Should Martin Luther King Jr. have stuck to preaching in his Baptist church and let segregation stand? Do we have "Colored" and "white" water fountains and bus stations anymore?
Are we outnumbered? Maybe, maybe not. Are we right? Yes. Will we fight? You bet.
but everyone values life!
You are defending laws that allow someone to kill a child, and you say you value life? Isn't that kind of like Jerry Springer saying he enjoys TV shows where people have quiet, friendly intellectual conversations about the themes in Sahkespear's sonnets? Isn't that like Richard Simmons saying he hates exercise?
Pro-choice people value all life, from victims of war to the starving poor, not only a fetus.
1. Where is the Planned Parenthood soup kitchen, again?
2. What have you, personally, done to help someone displaced or wounded by war?
3. If pro-choice people care more about the poor as pro-lifers (or even as much), why does study after study show that conservatives give more to charity than liberals at every income level?
4. Do you really believe that the local charities, churches and government agencies that help the poor in your town are staffed solely by pro-choicers? That none of us have the capacity to care for a small, defenseless child and a woman down on her luck? If you do believe that, doesn't that mean you have a pretty bigoted view of us? (BTW, in my town the homeless shelter is run by a pro-lifer and the churches that donate the most money and food to it are all Catholic or evangelical. In other words, pro-lifers.)
And yes we value the fetus, which is why we are prochoice, at least the fetus is terminated in a hospital room under the care of a doctor, not thrown in a dumpster after the birth (to die of exposure, or whatever horrible thing would happen to it) because the teenager was too afraid to tell their parents they were pregnant.
1. Do you really think that's the only choice that a young mother has, killing her child one way or another? You mean there are no charities, no adoption agencies, no welfare safety net, no safe haven laws? Only death by dismemberment or death by freezing? Really?
2. If someone told you that you were going to be ripped limb from limb and thrown in a garbage pile, would you care how qualified the person ripping you apart was? Would you care if the room it was done in was clean and well-lit? Would you be happy that you were being ripped apart so that you could avoid some other form of death, or would you rather live?
And that brings us back to...
Now comes the hate I am sure! You loving christians, you!!
I do love you, which is why I speak truth to you. That's because love is a choice. Sure, sometimes it's a wonderful emotion, but real love is a choice to do what's right for another even if it costs you something. I have a daughter on the way, and I've chosen to love her even if she has a disability, or it's hard to make ends meet.
And I love you enough to tell you this: the Jesus you say judges all people really does do so. And he loves you, enough to be tortured to death for you. He's loved you since before you began as one cell invading another. Right now you're pushing child killing as a freedom, a valuable right, a solution to many terrible problems. This may be because you were involved in an abortion, and that must, deep down, make you weary and afraid. Or maybe you're doing it because you don't know any better, but some day you will, and the realization of what you've supported will make you weary and afraid.
But I have good news: Jesus is ready for your weariness and fear. He said, ""Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls."--Matthew 11:28-29
Think carefully before you choose death as your life's work...and turn to Him when the day comes that you realize you're on the wrong path. but please let it be soon. You'll never regret choosing Him. Lay down that burden, and choose love.