Posted on 10/23/2008 4:31:28 PM PDT by LibWhacker
http://reason.com/blog/show/129620.html
IMHO the deputy should be ineligible to be a mailman. The USPS doesn't hire felons.
In any case, he is too damn dumb to be in uniform; there was no ‘emergency’; no ‘official business’; no real reason to be where he was when he was, when he has a perfectly good radio and most likely, a GPS system; and MOST definitely, an excellent set of maps in his car...unless his idea was to not let HQ know where he was joy riding. That worked out swell, didn't it?
The dog had turned, and was going past when shot, to boot.
Only thing the homeowner didn't do right was keep her driveway posted, gated, and locked to keep idiots from believing they had an ‘open invitation’.
It all kinda makes you wonder if we’re being told everything about the reason why this guy stopped at the home of this particular (and not unattractive) woman, doesn’t it?
In case anybody is interested, here’s the Grady County Law Enforcement Center website... http://www.gclec.com/
And here is where you can submit a web form to support suspicious activity... http://www.gclec.com/suspicious.htm
Definitely a better solution when you have the benefit of hindsight. However, when you have seconds to react, you don't always think of the best way of protecting yourself.
Considering the size of the dog, a swift kick would also seem to be a reasonable solution if the dog was aggressive. Unless there is an imminent threat to themselves or someone they are protecting most dogs will back down if the person doesn't. Of course most dogs would also stop short.
I had a friend who's wife had a rescue dog that was a border collie. The dog seemed really nice when she got it, and was really nice around women. The dog was however unpredictable at best around men.
The dog would often be wagging it's tail when I would walk up, then would suddenly lunge and nip at me and start barking like it wanted to rip my head off.
They used to make sure the dog was under control when they answered the door, but one time the looked over and it looked like the dog was sleeping when they were answering the door for the pizza guy. Next thing they knew the dog was flying out the door with the impressive speed that border collies have, tore into the pizza guy's leg , and had to be drug off of him.
Most dogs aren't that way, but there are all kinds of dogs just like there are all kinds of people.
Works just fine for Mrs. shibumi, who’s been a USPS Letter Carrier for over 20 years.
It's also her only real weapon for defense, so it's the first thing she would think of when threatened.
The officer might have had pepper spray, but when facing a threat he's far more likely to reach for the gun first, but if he has time to think things through he would then grab the pepper spray.
It looks to me like the dog is running in fast. The bounciness of the run looks to me to be the result of a low frame rate in the video more than anything else.
If that dog was being aggressive, it would have lowered it’s profile and set for a lunge... it didn’t, not even close.
I have to disagree with that. If a dog is going to run in and then jump up to lick someone it usually jumps up towards the face. If it is going to tear into someone it usually goes after a leg or the hands. The dog would lower it's profile more in a overly friendly approach than in an aggressive one because it has to shift it's weight down before jumping up. To attack down low, it just lowers mostly it's head at the last minute. To go after hands or leg it might jump but not as high, so it doesn't have to shift down low as much first.
I like dogs. I used to help out at agility competitions. However, I've also been bit a few times as well, and never above the waist. I did however have a friend who's standard poodle would launch itself from nearly ten feet away and try and lick my nose while just just bouncing off my side with it's shoulder as it flew by.
The gait looks bouncy, but that seems to be from a slow frame rate. The security camera likely had a slow frame rate even before being slowed.
The TV station probably slowed down the video so it was easier for people to see what happened, but it has the effect of making it appear like the dog was coming in more slowly and that the officer had more time to react.
Proof once again that cops are immature, violent, cruel, trigger-happy pussies who just want to kill something and they know they can get away with shooting dogs. Until I see other cops denounce such behaviors and see these pussy cops jailed and fired it isn’t painting with a broad brush to say this is about all cops.
Unless you've got your property posted with not trespassing signs, as long as they just come up the driveway to your door, they aren't trespassing until you ask them to leave and they refuse to do so.
Kids going door to door selling magazines to take a school trip are not intruders. Neither is someone stopping to ask directions.
In any case, he is too damn dumb to be in uniform; there was no ‘emergency’; no ‘official business’; no real reason to be where he was when he was, when he has a perfectly good radio and most likely, a GPS system; and MOST definitely, an excellent set of maps in his car...unless his idea was to not let HQ know where he was joy riding. That worked out swell, didn't it?
You've never lived out in a rural area have you? The maps don't have house numbers or mark driveways off of the county road. Your GPS won't be able to get you to a house number either, just a general area, and often not very close.
The dispatcher won't be able to help other than to relay directions from someone at your destination. They might be able to tell you exactly where you are, but unless they have GPS coordinates for your destination all they can do is get you in the general area and then you look for names on mail boxes. Though a lot of times the mail boxes are clustered together in one area to make the job of the postal workers easier, so they aren't at the end of the driveways. Then you get to drive down driveways and look for house numbers. Where I grew up our mail box was about a quarter mile away with a half dozen others, and I never saw a police officer very far down our road in the twelve years I lived there.
The only officer in the county that could have found his way to our house right away without getting directions was a friend of my father.
The dog had turned, and was going past when shot, to boot.
I've looked at it a dozen times. It looks like he might possibly be starting to turn when he is shot, or that might just be the bullet changing his direction slightly.
The dog has to run just slightly around the front of the car when it is coming in, so his momentum isn't strait at the officer when he is shot.
A dog isn't going to run in close enough to nearly brush against the guy as he runs past. The dog will either turn in around the front to the car to go to the guy (either to lick him playfully or attack) or will turn away out of reach.
I can't really tell which the dog was doing from the video.
You can tell the video is being played at a slower than normal rate by how far the dog slides after being shot. The dog was moving fast, and hadn't turned away at the point when it was shot.
I would agree that shooting the dog was not the best choice for dealing with even if it was attacking.
Pepper spray or a good swift kick even would work if force was necessary.
However, if the dog was lunging at him to bite him it would have been put down even if he did drive it off with a kick or pepper spray. The days were you can have a dog run loose that will bite someone for merely being in your driveway are long gone. I'm not sure that's a change for the better, but it's reality.
Only thing the homeowner didn't do right was keep her driveway posted, gated, and locked to keep idiots from believing they had an ‘open invitation’.
You say it sarcastically, but in effect there basically was an open invitation to come up to the door.
What can't really be known from the video was if the dog was being friendly or aggressive. While most dogs are relatively friendly even to strangers, there are all sorts of dogs just like there are all sorts of people.
I own and train German Shepherds. That dog was not being aggressive, the cop however was. He needs to be fired and restricted to a profession where he doesn’t have access to firearms.
A dog will lower it’s profile when attacking a person due to stability and hunting instincts. The dog goes low to prepare for an upward lunge to the throat or soft underbelly(this comes from the species instinct of hunting deer and other larger animals). When a dog raises up, it’s when it is challenging another dog for territorial or mating reasons to make itself appear more intimidating to the other dog.
Sorry, the cop was in the wrong here. He should never have unholstered his sidearm. If he was worried about being bit, he should have gotten back in the car. End of story.
Guess again, after looking at my name. 4 miles off the pavement; 1/4 mile off the county gravel. 45 or more of my 62 years have been rural, and most of the rest were spent 'out of town, away from home' as much as possible. As for a mailbox, we never put one up, and use a P.O. box instead.
In these post 9/11 days ALL inhabited properties are federally mandated to be identified, and roads named.
We got our signs, and even a 'road name' sign at the top of our driveway 3-4 years ago, like it or not. So did everyone else in the state. Even neighboring Wyoming has them now. Standard size, color, numbers, and posting, though color varies from county to county, and state to state.
And, I have a county 10 page, 12" X 18" map book, a smaller reproduction of the large versions in the Assessors Office, the Emergencey Management Office, and the Sheriff's Office, and the County Dispatch Center, which shows EVERY parcel of unincorporated land in the county, with the owner's name on it. I bought it to identify owners of properties I'd like to hunt; we are on deer/turkey lands, but don't have antelope, partridge, or grouse.
You say it sarcastically, but in effect there basically was an open invitation to come up to the door.
That is not sarcasm, it is a statement of fact. An unposted and ungated entry, or one with the gate unlocked, is legally considered an open invitation; that is why I say it was her mistake.
Under Clinton & before, yeah, it could be hard to locate and maps or GPS (if available) would have been next to worthless; not so now.
Oh, yeah, another thing I've learned since I was a kid in rural-land: when on a stranger's property, stay in the vehicle a prudent amount of time; a badge & gun on a "friendly visit" doesn't negate that.
I noticed your screen name AFTER I hit post.
In these post 9/11 days ALL inhabited properties are federally mandated to be identified, and roads named.
OK. Grab a GPS. Enter the street address of some of your neighbors and see where it shows them on the map. For some it might get you close enough that you can tell which house to go to. For others it won't get you anywhere close.
When they started changing addresses for 911 when I lived in rural PA they changed our street address three times.
They tried to standardize on at lot width and assign street numbers according to how many standard lot widths you were down the road from where they marked your neighbor. However, some places had street numbers for years before that which didn't match up with their new standard.
We got our signs, and even a 'road name' sign at the top of our driveway 3-4 years ago, like it or not. So did everyone else in the state. Even neighboring Wyoming has them now. Standard size, color, numbers, and posting, though color varies from county to county, and state to state.
Our road had a name, but it was only a county road for the first 1/4 mile. It was self maintained after that by the five families that lived off of the remanider of it, though several lived off of long driveways off of it. We all got addresses on the road name, though how they figured them out for multiple houses that were down nearly 1/4 mile driveways off of that road that wound around I don't know.
And, I have a county 10 page, 12" X 18" map book, a smaller reproduction of the large versions in the Assessors Office, the Emergencey Management Office, and the Sheriff's Office, and the County Dispatch Center, which shows EVERY parcel of unincorporated land in the county, with the owner's name on it. I bought it to identify owners of properties I'd like to hunt; we are on deer/turkey lands, but don't have antelope, partridge, or grouse.
Ever have someone reading a map try and give you directions to a house when they don't know the landmarks in the area? It's not always a easy process, and stopping for directions from someone in the area is often less frustrating.
I have a good friend that worked as a dispatcher for years and she has lots of scary stories to tell about trying to police officers to their destinations and having them get lost.
That is not sarcasm, it is a statement of fact. An unposted and ungated entry, or one with the gate unlocked, is legally considered an open invitation; that is why I say it was her mistake.
My apologies for misinterpreting it as sarcasm.
Under Clinton & before, yeah, it could be hard to locate and maps or GPS (if available) would have been next to worthless; not so now.
It is much, much better than it used to be, but in some areas it is still far from perfect and can be hit or miss.
Oh, yeah, another thing I've learned since I was a kid in rural-land: when on a stranger's property, stay in the vehicle a prudent amount of time; a badge & gun on a "friendly visit" doesn't negate that.
Good advice. However, the officer doesn't exactly rush up to the house.
He gets out reasonably slowly. Says something to the passenger in the car through the window, which I assume was telling him to stay in the car. He then starts casually towards the house.
The dog didn't come running up when he pulled in the driveway or when he got out, so I suspect the dog was in the house and got out when the owner opened the door, though that is just a guess. I suspect you're well aware that in such a rural area the a dog in the house will alert you to the presence of a car coming down the driveway, so if the dog had been outside when he pulled up, I suspect it would have been at the car before he got out.
Yeah; via radio in the 1970's when I drove cab at night, until I could get a real job again. It was almost as much fun as getting directions/destination from the drunk in the back seat. At that time, I also had a 300+ plus customer newspaper motor route. (Thank you, Jimmy Carter; God bless Ronald Reagan!)
In the 1960's, I also did special deliveries for the Post Office at night.
The four miles of gravel is county, but only the first 2 1/2 is maintained. All the mailboxes, of those beyond who have them, are at a fork 1 mile from the pavement. The rest is reverted "public" private maintained road...but 'the busies' still stuck up signs and number posts.
When they started changing addresses for 911 when I lived in rural PA they changed our street address three times.
They tried to standardize on at lot width and assign street numbers according to how many standard lot widths you were down the road from where they marked your neighbor. However, some places had street numbers for years before that which didn't match up with their new standard.
Sounds like the Back Easty types are as competent as I feared. I tend to forget that 'those of a certain political persuasion' are not as competent at running things, including their public employees union help, as they are at collecting campaign contributions and getting themselves reelected.
As to GPS, I do not mean a 'navigation system', but rather a gps unit to give Dispatch actual coordinates, and then get directions.
Nonsense. Very few dogs, if properly socialized, will attack people, unless trained to do so. This habit of killing family pets every time they enter a house is done to intimidate the humans, and for no other reason.
A lot of counties still don't have the ability to track their cars by GPS, or at least they didn't around here a couple years ago.
The technology involved has become pretty common, but setting up a dispatching office and all the emergency service vehicles with all the equipment is a huge capital investment. Since a lot of municipalities have fallen on budget deficits such large investment could only come at the cost of manpower, unless provided for by a specific state of federal grant.
I wonder if that sherrifs department has heard of a new device that is non-lethal, and can be used to ward off or control a subject, without having to resort to shooting.
It's a new product, call MACE.
Socialization is the act of training a dog not to be highly aggressive towards strangers and other dogs. Lacking such training, a lot of dogs can be highly aggressive towards strangers or strange dogs, though it's most common in rural areas where the dogs are around strangers less.
A great many dog owners do little to socialize their dogs properly.
Still, very few will outright attack. Charging up to someone barking and growling, yes, but attacking is much more rare.
Yet we do still hear lots of stories about dogs getting lose and biting people. My brother and I were bit as kids. Once simply because I walked down a county road we lived on past our neighbors. The neighbor's dog had puppies and was apparently decided that being on the road 50 yards from where her puppies was too close so she chased down my brother and I biting us both in the legs while we tried to run. It probably would have been worse but my father came running and drove the dog off.
The old woman who owned the dog came running out and started screaming at my father because he kicked her dog. My bite wasn't two bad. You can barely still see the scars on my brother's leg 30 years later. However all that woman, who had otherwise been a pretty nice neighbor, could see was that her lovable pet was being hurt.
She never forgave us for reporting the incident to county animal control which took the dog and put it down. She never talked to anyone in our family again. People often don't see those they love for what they are regardless of if they are pets of people.
My stepdaughter went to pick out a Christmas tree with her father a few years ago when she was six. There was a dog there that the owner of the lot of trees said didn't bite and she could pet it. She pet it with the owner present, and then they went and got their tree.
On the way out she stopped to pet the dog again. It lunged forward and bit her in the face without warning. It's top teeth sunk in just below her eye and lower teeth under her jaw. Her father got the dog off of her and got her to the hospital. You can barely see the scars on her face now, but if the dog had lunged just a tiny bit higher, she'd have lost an eye.
Now I will agree that it is far, far more rare for a dog to attack an adult than a child. However, when a dog thinks someone it feels bound to is threatened, they don't seem to care a whole lot about the size of the threat. It's a quality that has earned them the name of man's best friend. They are loyal and protective. However, they don't always know when NOT to be protective.
That's often not the fault of the dog, but it's also something that can't be ignored by someone dealing with an aggressive dog.
The DOG was doing what he was supposed to do. It was HIS HOME.
You know , I used to respect cops, but this crap happens far too often to just blame it on a few bad apples. I think its a whole mindset LEO has now. The dog was bounding out with its tail wagging. It didn’t look like a threat to me. If cops feel so threatened anymore then maybe they should quit the force and become furniture salesmen.
BTW, if some neanderthal with a badge ever shot MY dog, a lawsuit and internal affairs would be the least of his worries.
I was going to post something, but you said it all. Amen. I agree with every word.
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