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Proposition 1A: The real cost of high-speed rail
Capitol Weekly ^ | October 23, 2008 | Jon Coupal

Posted on 10/23/2008 11:31:16 AM PDT by americanophile

Investing in California’s transportation infrastructure is something all Californians agree is an important and lofty goal. But Proposition 1A does little for California commuters who suffer among the worst rush hour commutes in the country. This bureaucratic boondoggle will cost taxpayers dearly; an upfront price tag of $20 billion will just be the start. And once approved, there will be no realistic way for taxpayers to extricate themselves from this ill-conceived and poorly designed plan. So what is the real cost of Proposition 1A to taxpayers?

Senator Alan Lowenthal, Chairman of the Senate Housing and Transportation Committee, asked the California High Speed Rail Authority “What assurances can the Authority provide that California taxpayers will not be stuck with a massive bill in the future?” All indications point to nothing. And increasingly, evidence suggests that California taxpayers will pay a much heftier bill than what is represented by Proposition 1A’s initial $20 billion price tag.

The Authority itself has been re-estimating the cost of Phase I’s San Francisco to Los Angeles route from $30 billion in 1999 to $40 billion in 2005, and this year they revised the cost estimate to $45 billion. It is anyone’s guess what those estimates will look like in 2010 or when construction actually begins. Proposition 1A funds were supposed to cover a third of those costs but now they will only cover about 20%. And the rest of the money is supposed to come from the Federal Government and outside investors.

(Excerpt) Read more at capitolweekly.net ...


TOPICS: Politics/Elections; US: California
KEYWORDS: proposition1a; rail
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...another disaster in the making for the not so Golden State
1 posted on 10/23/2008 11:31:16 AM PDT by americanophile
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To: americanophile

Spend spend spend.


2 posted on 10/23/2008 11:36:05 AM PDT by djsherin (The federal government: Because your life isn't screwed up enough!)
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To: americanophile

The ads I’ve been hearing for it talk about jobs only - in constructing and running it. Sounds like the only benefit is a source of governemnt jobs at the expense (huge!) of taxpayers.


3 posted on 10/23/2008 11:36:12 AM PDT by CottonBall
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To: americanophile
NO TAX DOLLARS FOR TRAIN BUFFS!
4 posted on 10/23/2008 11:40:35 AM PDT by atomic_dog
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To: americanophile
In the study of management, this sort of counter-productive activity is called "Pyramid Building".

Frequently, a business or organization that faces tough economic times will hasten the fall by spending a large amount of money on non-productive construction projects. History is filled with examples of businesses that could have weathered the storm if they had faced facts early and conserved their assets to support their core business, but have instead left behind brand-new buildings that they never had a chance to occupy. The recent construction of the New York Times Building is a classic case.

It may be that we are seeing the State of California doing the same thing with this High Speed Rail boondoggle.

5 posted on 10/23/2008 11:44:49 AM PDT by gridlock (I root for the New York Yankees. I have had just about enough of "Losing With Class".)
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To: CottonBall

But those are government employed, union jobs. You know, “good” jobs. the kind the private sector produces are chaotic, unpredictable, and uncontrollable. </sarcasm>


6 posted on 10/23/2008 11:49:48 AM PDT by Darth Tokarev (E pur si muove)
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To: Willie Green

I would ping willie green, but there is no longer a FReeper by that name...


7 posted on 10/23/2008 11:50:24 AM PDT by gridlock (I root for the New York Yankees. I have had just about enough of "Losing With Class".)
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To: Darth Tokarev

And require people showing up on time and doing what they were hired to do. BAD jobs, no doubt!


8 posted on 10/23/2008 11:51:41 AM PDT by CottonBall
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To: gridlock

The state is already in the red. It makes no sense to spend so much money right now. (Ever actually, if it won’t pay for itself in a few years. The Metro in LA hasn’t helped congestion down there - Californians love to drive.)


9 posted on 10/23/2008 11:53:54 AM PDT by CottonBall
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To: CottonBall
This is a psychological exercise more than anything else. A very expensive one.

France has high-speed rail, therefore California must have it too. That is about the level of analysis you are working with, here. Never mind that what makes sense for France might not make sense for the vast areas of the United States, and that high speed rail doesn't even really make sense in France!

10 posted on 10/23/2008 12:08:52 PM PDT by gridlock (I root for the New York Yankees. I have had just about enough of "Losing With Class".)
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To: americanophile
It will NEVER get built. And air travel to SF is cheaper than hi speed rail any day. Californians should vote down this massive boondoggle. Transportation dollars can be spent on far better things than a white elephant project - never mind the assumption of massive new debt during a recession. JUST VOTE NO!

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

11 posted on 10/23/2008 12:17:56 PM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: CottonBall
Nothing wrong with the Metro. LA has a good rail system. They just need to finish it. The problem with the hi speed rail is its completely unnecessary. At high speeds they can get to SF in 3 hours. By air, you can get to SF in an hour. Do the math. Its doesn't compute.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

12 posted on 10/23/2008 12:20:49 PM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: gridlock
France has 50 million people and cities are very close together which makes hi speed rail both economical and efficient. And then there's the high cost of gas in Europe. There's no way a hi speed rail in California will even begin to pay back the cost of constructing it.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

13 posted on 10/23/2008 12:23:28 PM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: gridlock

Willie is gone. I am the Free Republic pro-rail whipping boy now.

Note: My position is that the government should build passenger rail infrastructure (the tracks, etc.) and let private industry own and operate the trains.


14 posted on 10/23/2008 12:25:30 PM PDT by B-Chan (Catholic. Monarchist. Texan. Any questions?)
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To: americanophile
Vote for 1A?


15 posted on 10/23/2008 12:26:05 PM PDT by newzjunkey (CA: YES on PROP 4. *** MCCAIN-PALIN ***)
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To: americanophile
Proposition 1A:

16 posted on 10/23/2008 12:26:10 PM PDT by calcowgirl ("Liberalism is just Communism sold by the drink." P. J. O'Rourke)
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To: newzjunkey

LOL. I like yours better. ;-)


17 posted on 10/23/2008 12:26:49 PM PDT by calcowgirl ("Liberalism is just Communism sold by the drink." P. J. O'Rourke)
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To: B-Chan

You’re a Texan. California doesn’t need you telling us we need to build an unnecessary “high speed” rail system for $20 billion.


18 posted on 10/23/2008 12:29:09 PM PDT by newzjunkey (CA: YES on PROP 4. *** MCCAIN-PALIN ***)
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To: B-Chan
I'd support it if the line was built from LA to San Diego. It takes 2 hours to get there by car. With hi speed rail, travel time could be cut to 45 minutes. Now there's a market for it. The market for SF simply doesn't exist. When they get it right, they can come back to the voters.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

19 posted on 10/23/2008 12:30:31 PM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: newzjunkey
See my post. An LA to SF line makes no sense whatsoever. An LA to SD line makes a lot of sense due to the short distance and they can build over existing Amtrak line. I just can't fathom the workings of the bureaucratic mind. ;-)

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

20 posted on 10/23/2008 12:32:34 PM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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