A Closer Look At The Birth Certificate

The Bulletin ^ | 10/21/08 | John Connely

[pissant]

One of the most intense allegations of the ongoing lawsuit against Sen. Barack Obama alleging ineligibility for the presidency is whether or not Mr. Obama can produce his birth certificate.

If Mr. Obama were to produce his birth certificate, it would lay the entire question to rest. It would prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that the U.S. government officially recognizes Mr. Obama's citizenship. The Obama campaign says that it has already produced this document, a scanned copy of which is available at the campaign's "Fight the Smears" Web site.

One point critics of Mr. Obama have made is the fact that the document posted is not, in fact, a birth certificate. It is a birth certification, which is a computer-generated printout of a birth record. A certification is a cheap print-off for people who have lost their original birth certificates. For most people, there is little practical difference between a certificate of live birth and a certification of live birth, although the certification requires extra verification when being used like a birth certificate.

Because of the tenuous nature of identifying a certification of birth as genuine, it requires an embossed seal and authoritative signature. The low-resolution scan available on the Obama campaign Web site appears to have neither of those. The ink from a date stamp, "June 6, 2007," is visible clearly, but it appears that the document does not have a seal or signature. The campaign only scanned the front of the document.

Without the seal and signature, the document on the Obama Web site lacks legal weight, and does not count as representing the official birth record of Mr. Obama.

Philip Berg, a former deputy attorney general for Pennsylvania, has filed suit against Mr. Obama, alleging that he is not legally qualified to serve as president. He has indicated that if Mr. Obama were to produce certified documents proving that he is a natural born citizen, he will withdraw his case.

Mr. Berg maintains that Mr. Obama is not a natural born U.S. citizen, but others wonder if there are more reasons why Mr. Obama and the Democratic National

Committee have not laid the question to rest by releasing the documents. Some think that there may be embarrassing information about Mr. Obama that could be inferred from the papers.

The original birth certificate would normally have an entry for religion, and many suppose he would have been listed as Muslim, an image Mr. Obama has worked hard to distance himself from. Others think it might have shown that his parents were not legally married, even though Mr. Obama contends that his parents were married in good faith before separating upon discovering his father had never divorced his last wife.

The Obama campaign says that the idea that Mr. Obama is not natural born is preposterous and cites the certification of birth as an example. But until a physical and verifiable document is produced for their critics, the lawsuit is expected to continue.

[esoteric]

Berg said factcheck is affiliated with the Annenberg (sp?) project. I have so much more research to do.

[Citizen Blade]

But at the time, Indonesia did not allow dual citizenship. Hence, he could not be a US citizen when he had the Indonesian passport.

That's kind of a circular argument. His maintaining US citizenship may have been a violation of Indonesian law. However, I haven't seen any evidence that he affirmatively renounced his US citizenship- there's no way to automatically lose US citizenship, you have to do so through a proceeding under US law. Like I said, I have no idea what Indonesian law is in this regard, but it isn't really relevant to whether or not he ever gave up US citizenship.

[Brookhaven]

I hate to fall on the Obama side on this one, but if these requirements are correct for 1961, it looks like he is a natrual born citizen EVEN IF HE WAS BORN IN KENYA.

* (a) One of your parents was a U.S. citizen when you were born;

His mother was a US citizen.

* (b) Your citizen parent lived at least 5 years in the United States before you were born; and

It doesn't say the 5 year period just before the birth or a continous 5 year period, just 5 years. So living in the US say from age 1-3 and 7-10 would be 5 years and meet that requirement. I'm pretty sure she lived in Hawaii from birth at least till age 17, so she would meet this requirement.

* (c) At least 2 of these 5 years in the United States were after your citizen parent’s 14th birthday.”

We're pretty positive she lived in Hawaii from 14-16, that would meet this last requirement.

Of course, if Obama was born in Kenya, it would hurt him at the polls, as I think there are a number of people that wouldn't vote for someone that wasn't born in the US under any circumstances. That may be the smoking gun on why he isn't producing the birth certificate.

Something odd is going on. Why not just produce the actual birth certificate and be done with it? When people don't take the easy route to clear something up, then you know something is up.

[Fred Nerks]

...Note that none have a full shot of the back of the document...

The 'factcheck' site shows little snips of a stamp and a seal that could have come from anywhere. The only image shown of the entire front of the document is deliberately obscured by folding and shadow.

Obviously Anneberg/Factcheck think we are all idiots, and half the time, they would be right.

[Fred Nerks]

It's interesting that no-one has seen the original of that announcement. How it came into the possession of the person who provided it is also interesting. He/she relates that on a visit to the library to search for the announcement, she asked an employee how to go about it, and the woman behind the counter replied;

That's no problem, someone came in here a couple of days ago looking for the same thing, here, you can have this, I still have a copy in the folder on my desk...'

paraphrased from memory.

I'll provide a link to that conversation if I find it again, think it was from a discussion on the texasdarlin website.

[Fred Nerks]

Luo tribesmen generally give their race as "Arab" and deny they are Negro. How would the evidence that Obama's father was listed on Jr.'s birth certificate as "Arab" affect the electoral race? Would a close-up high def look at "AFRICAN" on the COLB show evidence of alteration from "ARAB"?

I've been saying that for months! The Omani arabs have a very long history of slavery and oppression of the indigenous peoples of East Africa that goes back centuries. Arabs take their ethnicity from the paternal line, the maternal, the Luo, doesn't count as far as they are concerned.

Whenever I mention this, it's pointed out to me that arabs are NOT BLACK! (And Barack Obama Snr was obviously a Luo because of his colour.)

OMANI ARAB

With so much riding on obama's identification of himself as AFRICAN-AMERCAN his father's RACE as ARAB-AFRICAN would be a very real problem, wouldn't it? Enough to hide a birth certificate...and enough to present a fictionial 'autobiography'

I am very interested in what examples you may have of Luo tribesmen generally giving their race as arab.

[Fred Nerks]

please look at this video, my speakers have died and I can’t listen....

Obama’s Diaspora - Kenya

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MLKH7__IEo&feature=related

[WellyP]

Until the REAL long form BC is presented I will continue to call bull sh-t on anything presented by the Obama organization. They lied to us the first time and the second time, who says this is not just a better forgery!

[truthluva]

The video shows Obama’s grandmother, who I beleive may be a step-grandmother, in Kenya. It talks about when Obama visited there and how Raila Odinga is very popular there.

This is not on the video but:

Obama went to Kenya on US tax dollars to promote Odinga for president. Odinga lost and it has been implied the Obama advised him on his campaign and may have been involved in suggesting the Odinga claim voter fraud and incite riots. Many people died as a result of the Odinga loss. The violence did not cease until the President of Kenya agreed to a power-sharing agreement. It has also has been implied that Odinga signed an agreement with the Mulims in Kenya to promote Sharia law.

Raila Odinga is a cousin to Barack Hussein Obama.

[kabar]

Thew issue is not citizenship. Obama is a citizen and has a passport to prove it. The issue is whether he is natural born using jus solis or jus sanguinis. Since his father is not a US citizen, he is not eligible to be a natural born citizen if born abroad.

Birth Abroad to One Citizen and One Alien Parent in Wedlock: A child born abroad to one U.S. citizen parent and one alien parent acquires U.S. citizenship at birth under Section 301(g) INA provided the citizen parent was physically present in the U.S. for the time period required by the law applicable at the time of the child's birth. (For birth on or after November 14, 1986, a period of five years physical presence, two after the age of fourteen is required. For birth between December 24, 1952 and November 13, 1986, a period of ten years, five after the age of fourteen are required for physical presence in the U.S. to transmit U.S. citizenship to the child.

Obama's mother was 18 when he was born in 1961. So the only question is whether Obama was born in the US. He could clear that up immediately by producing his live birth certificate showing the attending physician, name of hospital, etc. like McCain has done. I am not a conspiracy nut, but I do find it odd why Obama is fighting the Berg and other suits in court when he can clear things up very easily. The question then becomes what is he hiding?

[Fred Nerks]

thanks!

[kabar]

But at the time, Indonesia did not allow dual citizenship. Hence, he could not be a US citizen when he had the Indonesian passport.

Yes he could. Indonesia doesn't allow dual citizenship but we do.

U.S. citizen may acquire foreign citizenship by marriage, or a person naturalized as a U.S. citizen may not lose the citizenship of the country of birth.U.S. law does not mention dual nationality or require a person to choose one citizenship or another. Also, a person who is automatically granted another citizenship does not risk losing U.S. citizenship. However, a person who acquires a foreign citizenship by applying for it may lose U.S. citizenship. In order to lose U.S. citizenship, the law requires that the person must apply for the foreign citizenship voluntarily, by free choice, and with the intention to give up U.S. citizenship.

Intent can be shown by the person's statements or conduct.The U.S. Government recognizes that dual nationality exists but does not encourage it as a matter of policy because of the problems it may cause. Claims of other countries on dual national U.S. citizens may conflict with U.S. law, and dual nationality may limit U.S. Government efforts to assist citizens abroad. The country where a dual national is located generally has a stronger claim to that person's allegiance.

[Poincare]

Whenever I mention this, it's pointed out to me that arabs are NOT BLACK! (And Barack Obama Snr was obviously a Luo because of his colour.)

It is my understanding that Luo are not Arab even though they came to Kenya from Sudan, BUT many of the Muslim Luo (and Obama Sr. was one) choose to call themselves Arab. Black Jews are Jews for sure, but the distinction between race and religion may cloud the issue there.

Obama could explain away his father's race as "ARAB" on a birth certificate to the extent of not being a real Arab, but even being a pretend Arab and the Luo feeling superior to (other) Negroes (in 1961 language) might be problematic in a close race. I wonder what Odinga calls himself racially.

[Godsgirl]

2 minutes and 47 seconds into the video, one of barak obama’s cousins, admits that barak is originally from kenya. You have to listen closely to her because her accent is slightly difficult to understand. She says “muslim kenyans would be so uplifted because he is originally form Kenya.” They were talking about his presidency when she made that comment.

[Fred Nerks]

thanks...that might have been the origin of the original contention that obama was born in Kenya.

[Godsgirl]

Barak obama’s cousin tells the person doing the interview “MUSLIM KENYANS WOULD BE UPLIFTED BECAUSE HE(BARAK)IS ORIGINALLY FROM KENYA.” They were talking about his presidency.She begins at 2 minutes and 33 seconds and at about 2 minutes and 47 seconds is when she says he is originally from kenya. She is hard to understand. I had to listen to her a couple of times to make sure that I understood her correcly.

[truthluva]

Yes, I hear it. I wish the real COLB would be made available. It should be interesting.

[LucyT]

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2111242/posts?page=190#190

[Miss Behave]

Berg was live via phone this afternoon with Memphis radio host Mike Flemming, and he said that live births in HI are numbered SEQUENTIALLY. He sounded as though it would be part of the key to the truth. Would not numbering hem it in?

I suppose he's talked about this before--I'm just a latecomer to this story.

[truthluva]

Oh man!! I work in Memphis and sometimes listen to Mike on the way home. Today I was listening to Hannity on XM so I missed Mike’s show.