Posted on 10/16/2008 3:34:41 PM PDT by xcamel
And as I said, carbon is natural and without it, all life on earth would die.
But it's not logical to go from that to, "Therefore, carbon can't be a pollutant."
Similarly, you can't take carbon dioxide off the hook just because it's an essential gas in the atmosphere.
Another fact: 500 million years ago CO2 levels were likely 10 times higher than now.
Actually, probably more like 20 times what they were now. And it was lots hotter.
Then, at the SPICE, the CO2 levels and temperature plummeted. So how does this information support the argument that CO2 and temperature are not linked?
The Global Warmers' point is that we're forcing the climate system with CO2, regardless of natural fluctuations.
There were no SUVs 500 million years ago.
Actually, there were...Simple Underwater Vertebrates were just beginning to appear. ;-)
It seems to be happening and is likely the cause of much of the climate variation we've seen.
The activities of man on earth are of little consequence compared to natural forces.
Tell that to those in Chernobyl, Bhopal, or Nagasaki.
Remember 9/12/2001, when there was no air traffic over the US and the lack of contrails led to measurable differences of parameters including temperature?
Nature is extremely powerful, far moreso than man...yet that doesn't mean man cannot have a significant impact.
You can't just change the discussion to one about Carbon, when the topic is about Carbon Dioxide. Different molecules. Different issues. Of course, carbon emitted where it is unwelcome (say, the atmosphere, in quantity) can be pollution. But CO2 in the atmosphere is neither unwelcome nor unusual.
My beef was with the initial post, which didn't have this qualifier in it. Perhaps semantics, but it's an important distinction since we can't assume everyone agrees that CO2 is causing no harm.
The initial post was about CO2 and only CO2. It was about defining CO2 as it exists in the world ~as a pollutant~. It simply is not. And we also cannot agree that everyone assumes that CO2 ~is~ causing any harm.
Here's another way to look at it: I would offer an alternate definition of "pollutant" to be one where an environmental concentration, for that substance of *zero* is optimal. I know this is semantics to some extent. But stick with me for a bit: "pollution" is like and almost interchangable with "contamination". While no amount of contamination is good, some low levels can be observed and have little if any effect. Of course like anything-- dosage is key. But it is something where if the concentration were reduced to zero... the ecological and biological effects are optimized.
But the concentration of CO2 in air cannot be reduced to zero without catastrophic effect. So we can't really call it a "contaminant". That's where I find resistance to this business of trying to call CO2 a "pollutant". It's simply inaccurate. To do so merely plays into the hands of the political forces of the anthropogenic global warming cabal. They're using bad science. They can't be allowed to get away with it.
If we elect this empty suit neo-Marxist, we will have a government that is insane.
Fart less and we’ll all be happier. :-)
Well, he better darn well DO SOMETHING to protect us all from Dihydrogen Monoxide, before we’re all poisoned!
What are some of the dangers associated with DHMO?
Each year, Dihydrogen Monoxide is a known causative component in many thousands of deaths and is a major contributor to millions upon millions of dollars in damage to property and the environment. Some of the known perils of Dihydrogen Monoxide are:
Death due to accidental inhalation of DHMO, even in small quantities.
Prolonged exposure to solid DHMO causes severe tissue damage.
Excessive ingestion produces a number of unpleasant though not typically life-threatening side-effects.
DHMO is a major component of acid rain.
Gaseous DHMO can cause severe burns.
Contributes to soil erosion.
Leads to corrosion and oxidation of many metals.
Contamination of electrical systems often causes short-circuits.
Exposure decreases effectiveness of automobile brakes.
Found in biopsies of pre-cancerous tumors and lesions.
Given to vicious dogs involved in recent deadly attacks.
Often associated with killer cyclones in the U.S. Midwest and elsewhere, and in hurricanes including deadly storms in Florida, New Orleans and other areas of the southeastern U.S.
Thermal variations in DHMO are a suspected contributor to the El Nino weather effect.
What are some uses of Dihydrogen Monoxide?
Despite the known dangers of DHMO, it continues to be used daily by industry, government, and even in private homes across the U.S. and worldwide. Some of the well-known uses of Dihydrogen Monoxide are:
as an industrial solvent and coolant,
in nuclear power plants,
by the U.S. Navy in the propulsion systems of some older vessels,
by elite athletes to improve performance,
in the production of Styrofoam,
in biological and chemical weapons manufacture,
in the development of genetically engineering crops and animals,
as a spray-on fire suppressant and retardant,
in so-called “family planning” or “reproductive health” clinics,
as a major ingredient in many home-brewed bombs,
as a byproduct of hydrocarbon combustion in furnaces and air conditioning compressor operation,
in cult rituals,
by the Church of Scientology on their members and their members’ families (although surprisingly, many members recently have contacted DHMO.org to vehemently deny such use),
by both the KKK and the NAACP during rallies and marches,
by members of Congress who are under investigation for financial corruption and inappropriate IM behavior,
by the clientele at a number of bath houses in New York City and San Francisco,
historically, in Hitler’s death camps in Nazi Germany, and in prisons in Turkey, Serbia, Croatia, Libya, Iraq and Iran,
in World War II prison camps in Japan, and in prisons in China, for various forms of torture,
during many recent religious and ethnic wars in the Middle East,
by many terrorist organizations including al Quaeda,
in community swimming pools to maintain chemical balance,
in day care centers, purportedly for sanitary purposes,
by software engineers, including those producing DICOM programmer APIs and other DICOM software tools,
by popular computer science professors, and
in animal research laboratories, and
in pesticide production and distribution.
What you may find surprising are some of the products and places where DHMO is used, but which for one reason or another, are not normally made part of public presentations on the dangers to the lives of our family members and friends. Among these startling uses are:
as an additive to food products, including jarred baby food and baby formula, and even in many soups, carbonated beverages and supposedly “all-natural” fruit juices
in cough medicines and other liquid pharmaceuticals,
in spray-on oven cleaners,
in shampoos, shaving creams, deodorants and numerous other bathroom products,
in bathtub bubble products marketed to children,
as a preservative in grocery store fresh produce sections,
in the production of beer by all the major beer distributors,
in the coffee available at major coffee houses in the US and abroad,
in Formula One race cars, although its use is regulated by the Formula One Racing Commission, and
as a target of ongoing NASA planetary and stellar research.
One of the most surprising facts recently revealed about Dihydrogen Monoxide contamination is in its use as a food and produce “decontaminant.” Studies have shown that even after careful washing, food and produce that has been contaminated by DHMO remains tainted by DHMO.
“I have read that a recent substantial reduction in sunspots on the sun will likely lead to much colder temperatures on earth.”
Darn, just when Al Gore had it all figured out. Gore will lose his purpose in life. Global warming was to Al Gore what Moby Dick was to Captain Ahab.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This should be of interest to Save the Rainforest, the Sierra Club and any other organization interested in the future of our forests. Carbon dioxide is the oxygen for green plants.
Pot, meet kettle.
I feel surreal just writing that.
I’ll fart all I want, and the Gubmint can’t stop me....for now.
Gondring, *ANY* substance known to man, when misused, can cause discomfort or death. Does this mean all substances known to man are pollutants?
You are knee deep in a fallcious argument here!
It was just a suggestion. :-)
Photosynthesis will be illegal in the Obama regime.
It always starts with a suggestion, warning or a PSA....than when the unwashed masses in the proletariat don’t obey, and they won’t, they move on to more draconian measures. :-)
No but seriously, dude... do we have to beg?
:-)
Hey, I know one thing, his CO2 is worse than mine (LOL).
Yeah, well when the “Republican’ candidate for POTUS started to yap about global warning because he had to pay it lip service, that’s when I turned off the debate and went to sleep.
McLiberal is a Democrat. An admirable one who served our great country as a warrior and a statesman....JFK would be a stinky right wing tax cutting strong national defense evil conservative today.
We do have to beg. I beg undecided voters to love America and vote for the Democrat John McCain and not the Marxist Communist US Party candidate.
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