Odinga is the Most Powerful Argument Against Obama, Period!

you said he was ‘sick’, you were saying he was nuts.

Not a problem. But just because he’s ill we can’t see the emails he claims to have?

I agree, and most everyone here will too.

But by and large the general public doesn’t care much about Africa. I don’t see how this can be packaged effectively foe the voters, in 3 weeks.

If you don't know how to do italics, you could at least put quote marks around other people's comments. Just because we know who said what, other people may not. Just a little FRiendly advice. :)

Let me try and respond to those points (base of reference: I was born and raised in Kenya, going to the US when I was 18. I returned to Kenya some months before the crisis started, so I was physically there during the crisis). Anyways, my responses to your points (followed by why I chose to respond):

- Obama chose to spent more time (6 days) in Kenya campaigning for his 'cousin" Odinga than he spent fact-finding in Iraq and Afghanistan

True. The main question though is this, will that resonate with independents? Sure, it would make any Conservative and/or core Republican (there is a slight difference) angry due to Obama's lack of priority, but would the average voter really care. Let's be un-PC here ...during GW's first term I was doing grassroot campaigning for him in college, and most people did not even give a darn about most things political. I wonder what the real impact of this would be to the average voter.

- Obama chose to support a candidate who was an avowed Communist

Odinga is a populist, and not only that but his family has historical roots in communism (starting with his father, Oginga Odinga, and going back decades during a time when Kenya's educated elite were either being flown to the US and the UK for higher education, with a small splinter going to the then Soviet Union. Odinga's dad stems from the Soviet side). Raila Odinga even names his son after Fidel Castro. However, Odinga is a populist rather than a communist (as his father was). He has a vast array of businesses, and is actually quite capitalist ....he simply uses populism as a crutch to garner votes (something virtually every politician in Kenya does). Even small-time mayoral elections and council positions normally have people handing out small sums of money to the rabble. It seems like a sticky accusation at first, but it could easily be shot down if the Obama camp ever needed to.

- Obama chose to support a candidate who backed imposition of Sharia law in a country that was over 80% Christian

This was a major bone of contention in Kenya just before the elections, when leaked documents were released showing that Odinga had signed a secret manifesto with several key Muslim leaders (under an Islamic organization called SUPKEM, which is the supreme council of Kenyan muslims). It caused a great deal of hue and cry due to, as you mentioned, Kenya being primarily Christian, and it was all over the major papers as well as on local blogs. It was a veritable powder keg. The problem with the argument is that a couple of weeks before the election the leaked documents were found to be forgeries from a political opponent.

- Obama chose to support a candidate (Odinga) who supported minority Islamists who opposed the Kenya's support of the War on Terror

I don't have any information on this one, one way or another.

- Obama chose to support a candidate who brought violence when he wasn't elected, torchig over 800 Christian churches and killing over 500 people.

The election in Kenya was seriously flawed, with both contenders (the incumbent Mwai Kibaki and of course Raila Odinga) both garnering very close tallies. Unlike the US system, the Kenyan system is solely via popular vote. In my opinion Kibaki won (although it should be noted that I supported him since I believe he was more pro-business than Raila ...under Kibaki Kenya was growing by 6-7%), however it is clear that the win was not by a large margin. Add to this the great number of irregularities that arose during the election. For one, Kibaki's people rigged the election in some areas, which caused furor in Odinga's camp. In the same vein, Odinga's people ALSO rigged the election in certain areas, which showed that both sides were stuffing ballots (it was funny when one side would accuse the other of rigging when the tally of certain areas was over 100% of registered voters, and then in the next few hours you realize that the side ACCUSING also has areas that have more votes than voters). It was a major mess. Which is where the problem began ...Raila's supporters refused to accept defeat, and Raila did not try to calm the tension (infact he threw fuel into the fire by calling for mass action, knowing very well what that would lead to). A section of this supporters used that 'mass protest' to wreak havoc on anyone suspected to have voted for Kibaki, and (coupled with some simmering land dispute issues where some Raila supporters in the Rift Valley felt that Kibaki supporters should not live there) that led to violence and killing. However, there was no targeting of churches because they were churches. There was one big case of a church being burned, but it was set ablaze by members of a tribe that largely supported Raila's party in the Rift Valley because a group of people belonging to a tribe that largely supported Kibaki had taken refuge. Both groups were Christian. A week after that, in another area where the numbers were reversed, a small group of Raila supporters were burned inside a house by a group of Kibaki supporters as an act of blind and stupid retribution. It really had nothing to do with Islam. Your numbers are also note completely correct: More than 500 people died (over a thousand), and in the same vein 800 churches were not burned (if they were that would be basically every major, minor and local church in Kenya, including the really tiny home churches).

- Obama chose to give advice to Odinga on all aspects of his political campaign and continues a close relationship today.

This appears to be true. I cannot say how close the advice was (I was not privy to it), but it is fact that they talked before the campaign, and during the violence Raila claimed to have spoken to Obama on the phone. That is all I know.

THIS IS A KILLER ISSUE (NO PUN INTENDED), THERE ARE SEVERAL VIDEOS OUT THERE TO PASS AROUND. THIS SHOULD BE RELOEASED BEFORE THE DEBATE.

Well, I actually disagree. I think the issue is important, and it should be raised (every thing counts), but it is not what most FReepers take it to be for several reasons. For one, I doubt it will have the level of resonance with the average voter that some think it will. Secondly, the connection has been blown out of proportion (not that it is not there, it is just that every two weeks the story takes another dimension ....e.g. the figure you reported of 800 churches being burned. It is like a hunter seeing a lynx in an area that was 'not supposed' to have any predators, and in a week or so the story is that a cougar was spotted). Thirdly, and most importantly, I believe this election will be framed by the economy. It is important for McCain to hammer other points (e.g. this, as well as things like Ayers, ACORN, etc etc etc), but that is icing on the cake. The meal is the economy.

Anyways, just my thoughts on actually having being here. During the crisis I posted a couple of long posts on the crisis, and heaped blame on both Kibaki and Odinga for letting things get to where they were. True leaders would have put country first. As I said, I supported Kibaki for several reasons, and did not support Odinga for several reasons. However, a lot of the points being raised between the connection between Obama and Odinga could very easily blow up in the face of McCain if he blindly rushes into them without checking proper facts first (and by fact checking I do not mean reading a book or riffling through blogs ....McCain's team can do very thorough research easily, and there are very many REAL papers written by a number of human rights societies on what happened in Kenya).

Anyways, there is some mileage that can be got out of that, but I think too many people are putting too much water on this. It will not change the election by itself ....McCain needs to frame himself on the economy. Maybe Palin can follow up on the other issues (Ayers, this, ACORN). However the answer to the question 'Where's the beef' is simple ....it is the economy.

Thanks for the instructions..........

To all who may need it,

This site below covers all the basics of posting in HTML. Posting links and images. Line breaks(br), new paragraph(p), bold type(b), italicize(i), etc, etc.

Dave's Site: HTML how-to guide:
http://www.davesite.com/webstation/html/tag_ref.shtml

Note on posting images:
You first need to copy the image location. To do that (at least with Windows), find an image that you want to post. Right click on it. Look for "Properties" in the menu that appears. Click on that and then highlight and copy the url for the image location. Image location urls usually end in .jpg or .gif, but not always. Finally, paste the image location url into the formula given at the site I linked you to (Dave's Site). Good luck and remember to always PREVIEW before posting.

note completely correct = not completely correct

I guess the 1500+ deaths Kenya suffered from ‘the change’ Odinga promised with the help of the big zero is not ‘evidence’ enough? We are morally bankrupt.

Excellent! Thank you.

You need to post this as a stand alone piece. It seems like around 10AM eastern time, there is a large number of FReepers logged on to the site. Also after 8PM ET. If presented intelligently like this, I can’t imagine how it could NOT have a devastating impact on the Messiah’s election chances. And it doesn’t, or shouldn’t, make any difference what Corsi may or may not have to add to it. What’s already known is damning enough. Whatever Corsi has would just be icing on the cake.

That’s great! And comprised of actual photographs.

My worry is that too much attention is being placed on Odinga, Ayers and birth certificates. I am not saying that those things are not important, it is just that we only have 3 weeks to go, and McCain needs to really start hitting some home runs. I doubt the birth certificate thing will be sorted (if there was any viable veracity ...note, viable in front of the veracity ....then Hillary would have capitalized on it a long time ago). In the same way the Odinga thing ....there is a lot of dirt and dung there, but reading some of the posts over the last couple of weeks I've come to realize that a 3-footer catfish has been turned into a 6-footer gar.

All along, the economy has risen to be the core issue..

Actually let me re-post something I had written but did not post (this was when FR had frozen up earlier today). It encapsulates a lot of stuff pertinent to this topic, and it was in response to another FReeper on some other thread (but never posted due to the freeze up). In a nutshell, I believe that Sarah Palin NEEDS to hammer out the Ayers/ACORN (goodness, ESPECIALLY the ACORN issue) and other gremlins in Obama's shadown, but McCain needs to stand up to the economy and give a solution that is NOT socialist and is NOT a different rehash of the spiel Obama is giving. Anyways, here is the post I was trying to place this morning. Here goes (please note it was a response to another FReeper, thus some syntax may seem out of shunt):

'Totally agree. While it is important for the Ayers and Acorn stories to stay on the fore, FReepers need to realize that most people who are not conservatives or core republicans (there is a difference ....) are really not being swayed by those arguments. They serve to whip up the base, but the average independent is not going to go vote for McCain because Obama was pals with Ayers. Now, I know there will be some who will say that 'all my friends are angry about Ayers,' but honestly ....chances are your friends are more or less like you.

McCain needs to have Sarah hammer out the Ayers/Acorn issues, but McCain himself needs to come out strong and talk about how he will tackle (or better yet, solve) the economic issues. That is the key thing right now. It is not Ayers, not Acorn, not some young lady Obama allegedly f'd, it is not Odinga (it was hilarious reading some articles where the people writing them had even used the wrong spellings), it is not Hamas/ Chavez/ Castro supporting Obama. All of those things are icing ....but the CAKE is the economy.

If McCain messes up on that, or he gives a poorly delivered version of what Obama is saying (to be honest, for the most part McCain's solutions and Obama's are so close that most voters will not note any real difference), then he will lose. FReepers need to realize that there are core issues, and that there are peripheral issues, and no matter how big the peripheral issues may be (e.g. the Acorn thing is MAJOR ....criminal all the way) that the election will be decided on the core issue (for Bush it was terrorism, this time around it is the economy).

Also people need to remember one name: Bill Clinton! Remember when there was a feeding frenzy about him, when the Lewinsky thing was burning up like a tub of hot tar on his head .....yet his approval ratings AMONG WOMEN went up!

Scandals have a funny way of wiggling left when people expect them to wiggle right! Sometimes they act like we want them to, sometimes they just decide to act the fool. At times they simply play possum ....and in this case that means coming to the fore when Obama is elected. You can be certain that if/when Obama is elected, THEN the media will jump all over the stories of Acorn and the young lass ....but only after the elections. That will be too late.

FReepers need to realize that the things that move VOTERS IN GENERAL are not the same that move FReepers. People honestly do not freaking care! That is harsh, but that is true.

Even in the Republican party that is the same thing! Case in point ....during the race for the Republican nominee, many people here had their pet horses. This guy, or that guy, or that other guy. Well, almost NO ONE had McCain as their choice. Look at the polls on FR back then. McCain was a non-entity ....yet he is NOW the candidate for the Republican party.

That says that we on FR are even at the fringe of our own party. As Conservatives we believe in a number of things (e.g. small government, fiscal responsibility, inalienable rights) that are being eroded not just out of the general consciousness but also from the party that is supposed to represent us. Which should make people think ....will something that will work for FreeRepublic necessarily work for an Independent if it is not even that effective on the average Republican?

Anyways, the ISSUE is the ECONOMY. Everything else is great and sweet, but the issue is the economy. Even if McCain hits every other note, even if he talks about Ayers and Acorn and young black women working in campaigns, even if he puts up posters on Odinga and Kenya (as if people really care about that ....two months ago a FReeper was telling me the entire continent of Africa was beetle dung), even if McCain says that Chavez/Castro like Obama .....even if McCain does all that 24/7, and does NOT delve into the ECONOMY, then he is toast! Dead in the water.

This thing will boil down on the economy, and while it is great to bring Odinga and Ayers into this, the average American will not make his decision on some African prime-minister whose supporters caused some chaos that killed a thousand AFRICANS (makes it even less likely anyone will care ...in the time it took me to write that more children than that just died of Malaria and other preventable diseases in Africa), or because the Democrat party nominee was allegedly running around his wife's back (apparently it is a badge of honor in the Dem party). Sure, it will make Conservatives (even the odd conservative with a small 'c'), and core Republicans fired up ....but it will fizzle and ebb among the general populace.

McCain needs to frame the election around himself, what he can deliver, and his very strong capabilities. He needs to frame it around what he can do to help the nation overcome its economic difficulties. He needs to frame it around his experience and amazing track record. BECAUSE (and forgive me for putting this in all caps), IF HE FRAMES IT AROUND OBAMA AND HOW OBAMA LIKES AFRICAN PRIME-MINISTERS, YOUNG WOMEN, THAT HE NEVER WROTE HIS 'MEMOIRS,' HAS NO BIRTH CERTIFICATE, ETC ETC ETC, THEN MCCAIN WILL LOSE! It is that simple. I am not saying (to reiterate) that Ayers and Acorn and Odinga are non-starters ....what I am saying is that with 3 weeks to the elections, and with the economy at the fore-front, they MAY AS WELL BE non-starters.

McCain needs to frame this around himself and his ability to bring about solutions, and then have Ms Palin be HERSELF (let her lose) as well as having her really hammer Obama on the 'icing' stuff (e.g. Acorn and Ayers). Focus is needed. There are only 3 weeks left. Even the birth-certificate spiel people are bringing up (I see yet another thread on that got locked) is just a mirage ....Obama's people can tie that whole thing up in courts for months, let alone THREE WEEKS! Same thing with Ayers, same thing with Odinga (even if people did care, which they don't outside political circles), same thing with Acorn (big potential time bomb, but can be tied up easily using legalities until the election is over). Those issues need to be hammered out, but FReepers need to realize that McCain will not win because of them. Castro could print Obama's name on all the cigars in Cuba, and the average American would not even care.

The issue is the economy. McCain should focus on that, and then let Sarah lose to be herself (no handlers ...goodness, the lady has been running a state larger than most countries in the WORLD!!!!!!!!!)

It is frustrating to see McCain lose focus, and just as frustrating to see FReepers say how McCain should go and talk about Odinga or about birth certificates when the most that will do is just take time away from McCain that he could be using to expound on the economy. Sarah is there, she is ridiculously competent (her potential is actually greater than McCain's), and she can thump Obama easy.

McCain has only 3 weeks.

Thank you! You can't tell me that once Americans know he supported a man who wants to enforce sharia law he is not toast! I mean that ties him to islam more than anything.

I think the McCain camp needs to make the critical connection between Bill Ayers' Weather Underground and Wright's "Black Liberation Theology". And then tie it all in to a radical left agenda for America, which would of course include the radical activities of groups like ACORN which he worked so closely with.

New York Times, August 24, 2003
"they [the Weather Underground] employed revolutionary jargon, advocated armed struggle and black liberation and began bombing buildings, taking responsibility for at least 20 attacks. Estimates of their number ranged at times from several dozen to several hundred."
_______________________________________________________________

"Their founding document [the Weather Underground's] called for the establishment of a "white fighting force" to be allied with the "Black Liberation Movement" and other "anti-colonial" movements[1] to achieve "the destruction of US imperialism and the achievement of a classless world: world communism."..." Lots more on the connection here:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2103946/posts
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VIDEO OF OBAMA IN KENYA CAMPAIGNING FOR MARXIST THUG/"COUSIN" RAILA ODINGA!
8 minute version:
"Barack Obama & Raila Odinga"
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=S8QcpdUtxNQ&feature=related
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Raila Odinga's official website:
"Your Agent of Change", "Register For Change", "Vote For Change"
http://www.raila07.com/
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Obama on video campaigning for Marxist “cousin” Raila Odinga, Kenya’s “Agent of Change”:
"When Raila Odinga lost the presidential election last week (12/27/2007) to Mwai Kibaki, he claimed the vote was rigged, whereupon his tribal followers went on murderous rampages such as in the town of Eldoret, where on New Years Day dozens of people were burned to death in a church set on fire. Throughout Kenya, hundreds of people have been politically murdered in the last few days."

"Listen as the Luo calls itself the "Taliban" in the video. It's graphic, it's gruesome but it is who Obama supported. Watch the whole thing, particularly the Luos burning a church, raping women, and hacking a man to death."
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2103801/posts
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Guilty Party: ACORN, Obama, and the mortgage mess
Mona Charen, September 30, 2008
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=Mzk4MmVkNzA1NGQ2NGRkZjQ2YjNmYjdlODZkMmQ4N2I=
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An ACORN Falls from the Tree: A congressional outrage
Ken Blackwell, September 29, 2008
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=N2Y5MTc0ZTAyMmE1Mjk3NGE3OWRiY2FkMjZlN2YxYzc=
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Inside Obama’s Acorn:
By their fruits ye shall know them
Stanley Kurtz, May 29, 2008

"What if Barack Obama’s most important radical connection has been hiding in plain sight all along? Obama has had an intimate and long-term association with the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (Acorn), the largest radical group in America. If I told you Obama had close ties with MoveOn.org or Code Pink, you’d know what I was talking about. Acorn is at least as radical as these better-known groups, arguably more so. Yet because Acorn works locally, in carefully selected urban areas, its national profile is lower. Acorn likes it that way. And so, I’d wager, does Barack Obama."
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=NDZiMjkwMDczZWI5ODdjOWYxZTIzZGIyNzEyMjE0ODI
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2004 Video: Democrats Defend Fannie/Freddie from Regulation:
"We've been through nearly a dozen hearings where frankly we were trying to fix something that wasn't broke. Mr. Chairman we do not have a crisis at Freddie Mac and in particular at Fannie Mae under the outstanding leadership of Mr. Frank Raines."-Rep. Maxine Waters, 2004
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YL36nwCSYUM
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History of Fannie Mae scandal
Associated Press, December 7, 2006
"Fannie Mae announces its long-awaited restatement, erasing $6.3 billion in profit from 2001 through June 30, 2004."
http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2006/12/07/history_of_fannie_mae_scandal/?page=1
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Bailout Politics: The Congressional Dems who enabled this crisis are now being trusted to fix it?
Thomas Sowell, September 30, 2008
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=OWE3OWU3OTExYzNlNTUzMzY2YmJmOWZjMzcwN2M1NjU=

Yes, in the final analysis, they shall be hoist on their own petard.

You don't have to convince me, I'm with you. I just don't see the campaign making this stuff digestible to the idiot electorate.

We’ve been hearing about this for two weeks on these threads. It’s not gaining any traction outside of the conservative web sites. The media is protectiong there Messiah. Nothing will ever come of this. It’s just another Obama misdeed that will go unchecked.

Sad that the MSM is more concerned about Joe the Plummer’s unpaid traffic fines in Arizona from 8 years ago than the fact that our possibly soon-to-be POTUS is a close supporter of a bloodthirsty Islamic Marxist who kills Christians and overthrew a domocratically elected government.