Cobb police add tank to arsenal

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution ^ | Oct 10, 2008 | DERRICK MAHONE

[wastedyears]

***Is the civilian population more dangerous than a trained foreign military?***

Well, let’s put it this way...

An invading force will have rules of engagement, military discipline, and a chain of command. When the brown stuff hits the fan, well, we won’t have any of those.

[wastedyears]

***They’re on our side and will loan us what’s needed.***

I don’t think all of them will be on our side.

[archy]

There is no rational need for any police department to have one of these.

An armoured ambulance makes sense, particularly in light of such events as the North Hollywood bank robbery, when the cops had to *borrow* an armored bank delivery truck to evacuate their and civilian wounded. And the German Grenzschutze used light armor, some with 20mm automatic cannons, back in the days when the *Iron Curtain* border was a 5 kilometer military controlled zone. I could see that application along our southern border, especially since the Mexicans routinely patrol their side with HUMVEES with .50 Browniong machineguns.

The Mexicans also operate surplussed German Bundesgrenzschutze vehicles with cannon. Yeah, I can see their use along that front.

[patton]

Nice - but you don’t fire that monster from the hip.

Along with radios, power conversion. Cop radios are 12V.

[archy]

***They’re on our side and will loan us what’s needed.***

I don’t think all of them will be on our side.

Nor will all of them abandon their oath to the Constitution and act against the American people. Expect many, most to simply take no side at all, refusing to take part in activities that would require committing acts of war against fellow Americans.

Enough of them on our side will be enough.

[archy]

Nice - but you don’t fire that monster from the hip. Along with radios, power conversion. Cop radios are 12V

The V100 electrical system operates from a pair of 12-volt batteries in series. It's a pretty simple matter to tap 12-V radio power from one, and that needed for a lightbar, spotlights, etc. from the other.

Still, they may be dumb enough to do it the hared way.

[wastedyears]

If along the southern border, which I completely agree there needs to be an impenetrable wall, they should be operated by the National Guard. As we all know on here, police departments can’t responsibly own and operate armored personnel carriers/tanks.

[patton]

I am surprised it has 12V batteries. New one on me.

[archy]

Nice - but you don’t fire that monster from the hip.

No, nor from out in the open during hostilities.

But among the accessories for the 20mm Norsupyssy is what's popularly known as a *fencepost* mount.

[patton]

LOL - the sight is cracking me up. Interesting reticle.

[archy]

End swat teams now.

First, the bad news for you:

Now, the good news:

[humblegunner]

Is the civilian population more dangerous than a trained foreign military?

Far more dangerous.

An invading force will have rules of engagement, military discipline, and a chain of command. When the brown stuff hits the fan, well, we won’t have any of those.

We have a few. Not so much as to constrain operations.

[wastedyears]

Well, you guys will have something of a chain of command. I doubt any one person in control, but you’ll probably have retired infantry leading small bands of guerrillas. In NYC, we likely won’t have that. I don’t think I’d even be able to make a Snake Plisskin-like escape from NYC. I would imagine all our roads and waterways to the outside will be shut down. Add to that I don’t own any SCUBA gear, nor am I qualified. I also refuse to have to register a firearm here, and as such I don’t own one, nor do I know where I would get one. All I’d have are boots, camo, and a knife. Though if I was able to, I’d move out of here in a heartbeat.

[archy]

LOL - the sight is cracking me up. Interesting reticle.

Following WWII, the Finnish 20mm AT rifles had lost most of their utility as antitank weapons, though they'd been proven useful against early Soviet light armor during the 1939 *Winter War* [Talvisota] and against later SP artillery and light amphibious tanks.

But in the immediate postwar period, one major potential threat was the Soviet Il-2 Sturmovik a very effective ground attack aircraft used very much the way we now utilize the A-10 Warthawg. Lightly armoured on its underside, it was effectively impervious against ground fire from rifle-caliber automatic weapons, though an American .50 M2 would chew one right up. And, of course, so would the 20mm explosive armour-piercing rounds of the L-39 Lahti, originally intended for use against tanks. With a slight internal addition allowing full-auto fire and the creation of a 20-round magazine, the old elephant guns were given a new role and a new life in Finnish service. The reticle on the L-39 pictured above is one of those, meant to give the appropriate lead depending on whether the aircraft is passing in front or coming head-on.

By the late 1950s, the Soviets were phasing out most of their prop-driven aircraft, including the dreaded IL-2, and began switching over to jets. In 1959 there were concerns in Finland that the Soviets were considering a repeat of the 1939 invasion, having successfully spanked their upstart colonies in East Germany ion '53 and Hungary in '56. The Soviets had amassed tanks and the Finnish intelligence service had additional information that seemed to confirm that the Soviet troop activity wqas more than just saber-rattling, and was possibly meant to coincide with any US action taken in Cuba, a test for the new American president to be elected in 1960.

The Finns allowed access to the collection of obsolete and captured goods leftover from four wars: that of Finnish independence in 1918, the Winter War of 1939-'40, the Continuation War that the rest of the World knew as WWII, and the final removal of German troops in Finland as required by treaty toward the end of WWII. There were thousands of former Russian rifles and MGs, light mortars and artillery, and all sorts of oddball emergency arms the Finns had little ammo for, Japanese Arisakas, Italian Carcanos, 5000 French Chauchat automatic rifles, and others, including American Winchesters and German Mausers and light MGs and antitank weapons. And there were 200 L-39 20mm Lahti antitank rifles.

In return, the American firm of Interarmco [later to be known as Interarms,] arranged for the Finns to receive 500,000 WWI British Sten Guns, enough for every Finnish adult man and woman and many of the teenagers to have one. The national ammunition factories began churning out 9mm SMG ammo as fast as they could, and the Soviets, recalling the loss of 2/3 or their attacking force in 1939, wisely decided not to come visiting again. Those weapons, brought to the USA and sold to shooters, collecters and quite a few Bay of Pigs Cuban Exiles, may well have saved Finland from the second Soviet invasion- that never came.

A few years later: the big, heavy 20mm rifles that had served Finland for three decades were about to finally pulled from service. But it was then noted that the increasing use of helicopters by the Red Army, particularly helicopter gunships, meant that the Finnish troops needed heavy weapons with which to fight back...then along came the Russian Hind-D *Flying Tank* armored helicopter, and until the advent of the proven Stinger missile in the 1980s, the big rifles of Finland had to remain in service.

They're gone now, finally retired and off to museums or in the hands of those who know them and respect them for both their mechanical excellence and the historic roles they've played. Some American shooters prefer the German Solothurn S-18/100 antitank rifle in the same chambering, of equally fine German prewar manufacture, with its connection in its use as armament on some light German armoured vehicles, and a bit handier to lug around since the Solothurn's barrel is easily dismountable from the gun.

No thank you. I prefer the L-39 Lahti, by far. And now you understand part of the reason why.

[An Old Man]

"All I’d have are boots, camo, and a knife."

It's not generally considered a good idea to start a war with someone who looks just like you. Therefore unless you really want to look just like the targets, you may want to leave the camo behind.

[humblegunner]

Dang.

Y'know, when I was living deep in the Metro Houston Complex,
I kept aware that there were horses and cattle in the Zoo
and that they would like to get out and play anyway.

Seriously, it may be time to back out of the metro area a bit.

I did.

[sergeantdave]

And not all leftists are on the same side.

(See operation Barbarossa as one example of many) :-)

[archy]

Well, let’s put it this way... An invading force will have rules of engagement, military discipline, and a chain of command. When the brown stuff hits the fan, well, we won’t have any of those.

Yep. All we have is all those darned veterans. And interestingly, now as then, most of those who saw combat or who saw service in combat arms services who take recent matters most seriously.

[patton]

Are you some sort of pseudo for John Ross?

[archy]

I also refuse to have to register a firearm here, and as such I don’t own one, nor do I know where I would get one. All I’d have are boots, camo, and a knife. Though if I was able to, I’d move out of here in a heartbeat.

There's a spare or two waiting for you whereever I'm at. And you're welcome around our bunch.

Don't sweat the hardware too much, should that time come, there'll be quite a bit of that sort of thing just laying around waiting to be picked up, next to or near those who no longer have any use for the things of this world any more.